Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

97L growing more organized, will bring heavy rain to the Lesser Antilles
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 15:55 GMT le 19 juillet 2009 +1
The tropical wave near 12N 52W, about 600 miles east of the Lesser Antilles Islands (97 L), has grown more organized this morning as it tracks west at about 20 mph. This wave is surrounded by an area of very dry air from the Sahara Desert, but 97L has been able to steadily moisten a large region of the atmosphere over the past day, insulating itself from the dry air. This moistening process has been aided by sea surface temperatures (SSTs) that have steadily increased from 26.5°C to 27.5°C, plus the presence of only 10 knots of wind shear. The system now has a small area of intense thunderstorms near its center, with some rotation of the cloud pattern evident at mid-levels of the atmosphere. An upper-level outflow channel has opened to the north, and there is evidence that surface spiral bands are beginning to form. This morning's QuikSCAT pass missed 97L, so we don't know what is happening at the surface.

Wind shear is a modest 10 knots over the disturbance, and is forecast to remain in the moderate 10 - 15 knot range through Monday morning. This should allow further development to occur today, and 97L could be approaching tropical depression strength on Monday as it moves through the central Lesser Antilles Islands. Monday night, shear is expected to rise to 20 - 30 knots, thanks to the presence of a trough of low pressure at upper levels of the atmosphere over the eastern Caribbean. Since 97L is a relatively small system, it is very vulnerable to wind shear. This shear may be able to drive some of the dry air west of 97L deep into its interior, significantly disrupting the disturbance. Shear will remain high along 97L's path through Thursday, when the storm should be in the western Caribbean near Cuba. If there is anything left of 97L by then, some development is possible. The National Hurricane Center gave 97L a low (less than 30% chance) of developing into a tropical depression in the next 48 hours in their 8am Tropical Weather Outlook. However, I'd say the odds are now in the medium range (30 - 50%).

None of the computer models are forecasting tropical storm development over the next seven days.


Figure 1. Current satellite image of African wave 97L.

I'll have an update Monday morning. As 97L approaches the islands, you may want to follow local observations there using our wundermap for 97L.

Jeff Masters
Categories: Hurricane
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1301. BurnedAfterPosting 23:15 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting stormwatcherCI:
You give it long. Looks like almost continuous bashing to me. BurnedafterPosting telling someone not to be ignorant. Everyone is not as highly educated as he seems to think he is. It doesn't mean you are ignorant if you ask questions when you don't know something.


LMAO you caught that huh? No ignorance means not admitting something that is right in front of you

shear maps and the visible clearly shows that there is shear in the immediate vicinity of 97L, yet he claims over and over there is no shear

that is being ignorant, it is taken out of context as being an insult
1302. nrtiwlnvragn 23:15 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
HWRF looses the circulation after about 36 hours.

Link
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1303. weatherwatcher12 23:16 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
A new AOI by the Cape Verde's?
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1304. victoria780 23:16 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting KoritheMan:


If the shear is westerly (coming from the west), and 97L is moving westward, then that will spell disaster for the tiny circulation. The NHC has even mentioned this before: if vertical shear is coming from the direction in which a storm is moving, then it is that much more detrimental to intensification, or in this case, tropical cyclogenesis.
It will be like hitting a brick wall,like what happened to the other disturbance as it entered the lesser antiles..
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1305. chsweatherintern2009 23:16 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
from what I am seeing the best chance for developement of any type will be tomorrow. it might get the orange color but if it doesnt it is going to be because of the shear. If the shear is reallyu at 50 then it does not matter what the thing is it will be killed. Stop the hyping and just let what happens happen Later Bye
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1306. Nolehead 23:17 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
everyone wrote 97l off last night and WALLA today..so lets see what it does tonight and wait to see what the new models are saying..before you bash the daylights out of it...
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1307. stormwatcherCI 23:17 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting BurnedAfterPosting:


LMAO you caught that huh? No ignorance means not admitting something that is right in front of you

shear maps and the visible clearly shows that there is shear in the immediate vicinity of 97L, yet he claims over and over there is no shear

that is being ignorant, it is taken out of context as being an insult
Sorry if I misunderstood.
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1308. zoomiami 23:18 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting StormW:


The TUTT movement is dictated by the upper level steering layer.

When a TUTT starts to lift out, or back away, it helps to "ventilate" the area that a storm is sitting in, for instance with 97L...if you look at a TUTT, on the east side of the axis, you'll notice how once the wind flow comes out of the axis, that it humps up into a ridge...it is this ridging that helps to produce some upper level outflow, or ventilation for the system.


Thanks Storm - appreciate the time
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1309. BurnedAfterPosting 23:18 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
I still think we will eventually get Ana out of 97L, but I think it will be in the long term and not the short term

this situation with the shear is very fickle and it could go either way, right now though it looks like shear will prevent 97L from organizing further in the short term

of course I could be wrong, we will see
1310. reedzone 23:18 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting HurricaneSwirl:


dang it! my memory blanked out on me. does an anticyclone aid or prevent development again? d'oh i used to know this lol.


Anticyclones are basically shields for tropical systems.
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1311. futuremet 23:18 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting HurricaneSwirl:


thanks much for clearing that up futuremet, helps to have an expert on when all this confusion is everywhere.. so as long as this system doesn't get to the antilles by mid tomorrow shear wont disrupt it much?


As long as it stays south of 17N, it will be okay.
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1312. BurnedAfterPosting 23:19 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting stormwatcherCI:
Sorry if I misunderstood.


not a problem, I probably shouldnt have said it anyway
1313. reedzone 23:19 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting Nolehead:
everyone wrote 97l off last night and WALLA today..so lets see what it does tonight and wait to see what the new models are saying..before you bash the daylights out of it...


Ahhem... not everyone ;)
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1314. cjswilmingtoneye 23:19 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Here's the deal. No matter what someone says on this blog, or what the computer models say; Mother nature will always decide what is going to happen. Everyone needs to just relax a little bit, and OBSERVE. How many times in the last hour or two has someone said that the invest is currently in the diurnal minimum? So isn't it expected that the system not look as good as it did several hours ago? Maybe I'm a little confused. I don't think that the shear has such swift swings from one hour to the next. It looks to me like a normal diurnal pattern is what is unfolding with 97 L right now. This will happen EVERY DAY with ANY tropical system. So why should someone say at one part of the day, "oh... this system looks great and is going to survivie", and then a few hours later, "oh... this system looks ragged and soon will go POOF"? why is that?
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1316. KoritheMan 23:20 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting BurnedAfterPosting:
I still think we will eventually get Ana out of 97L, but I think it will be in the long term and not the short term

this situation with the shear is very fickle and it could go either way, right now though it looks like shear will prevent 97L from organizing further in the short term

of course I could be wrong, we will see


For days, I've been saying that 97L isn't going to develop until at least 75W. The GFS and NOGAPS continue to forecast a dramatic decrease in shear in that general area over the next few days.

I'm obviously no expert, and the NHC is definitely smarter, this is just my opinion from my experience and observations.

I'm fully prepared to be wrong, however, if the system unexpectedly develops prior to approaching the Windwards.
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1317. zoomiami 23:20 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Storm: if you are still around. Any ideas why the models didn't pick this up?

It also shows that the models are not perfect, because there is obviously a tropical event occurring, regardless of whether it ever becomes a full blown tropical storm.
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1318. KoritheMan 23:21 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting victoria780:
It will be like hitting a brick wall,like what happened to the other disturbance as it entered the lesser antiles..


Yes, exactly.
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1319. BurnedAfterPosting 23:21 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting KoritheMan:


For days, I've been saying that 97L isn't going to develop until at least 75W. The GFS and NOGAPS continue to forecast a dramatic decrease in shear in that general area over the next few days.

I'm obviously no expert, and the NHC is definitely smarter, this is just my opinion from my experience and observations.

I'm fully prepared to be wrong, however, if the system unexpectedly develops prior to approaching the Windwards.


I am in the camp you are, development around 75W, SSE of Jamaica
1320. Dropsonde 23:22 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Isn't the shear map everyone is looking at the 200-850 mb one? I am not sure that this system even has cloud tops through 200 mb. Whatever wind speed difference occurs at that height won't tear up the circulation unless the clouds actually reach that height. DMIN may well have saved it from this small pocket of shear that has sprung up just to its west, and odds are that the shear pocket is a random temporary thing that will lift out with the rest of the trough. The atmosphere is chaotic like that.

The mid-level shear map might -- for now -- be the one to actually look at in terms of it affecting 97L. It goes from 850 to 500 mb.

I think that if 97L DOES bomb out tonight and then it hits whatever high shear may be there, it would have a greater impact on it than if it had not bombed out. Of course, if the TUTT lifts out quickly as some models suggest, that's a moot point.
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1321. stormdude77 23:22 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    


97L really needs a good DMAX to get going again....
1322. HaboobsRsweet 23:23 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting BurnedAfterPosting:


LMAO you caught that huh? No ignorance means not admitting something that is right in front of you

shear maps and the visible clearly shows that there is shear in the immediate vicinity of 97L, yet he claims over and over there is no shear

that is being ignorant, it is taken out of context as being an insult


I have a question...while I see plenty of shear from avil blow off, how do you know the shear maps are accurate? Do they launch ballons over the water? Do they cover every 10 square miles? What is the process? Seems like a lot of estimation to me.
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1323. HurricaneSwirl 23:23 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting reedzone:


Anticyclones are basically shields for tropical systems.


Hmmm, that's pretty sweet deal for the cyclone lol. when is it predicted to form?
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1324. Nolehead 23:23 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
1313. reedzone 11:19 PM GMT on July 19, 2009
Quoting Nolehead:
everyone wrote 97l off last night and WALLA today..so lets see what it does tonight and wait to see what the new models are saying..before you bash the daylights out of it...


Ahhem... not everyone ;)


oh i was with ya on it too..let's just sit back and wait...
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1325. WaterWitch11 23:23 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting weatherwatcher12:
A new AOI by the Cape Verde's?


where is this map from?
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1327. plywoodstatenative 23:25 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
It appears according to what is going on to the west of the main burst of convection, that it might be trying to wrap.
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1328. moonlightcowboy 23:26 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
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1329. weatherwatcher12 23:26 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting WaterWitch11:


where is this map from?

The Satellite Services decision's. Tropical Formation branch
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1330. BurnedAfterPosting 23:26 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
that system by the CV islands is really far south, I estimate it is around 7N
1331. Drakoen 23:26 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
NHC is going to keep development chances at <30%
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1332. Nolehead 23:26 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
nope StormW, don't like those runs at all...throw those out and lets start over...
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1333. reedzone 23:26 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting HurricaneSwirl:


Hmmm, that's pretty sweet deal for the cyclone lol. when is it predicted to form?


Look on the shear map near Costa Rica.. Notice the arrows circulating in a clockwise fashion, that is an anticyclonic flow, and I think the reason why models forecasted low shear was maybe they noticed the Anticyclone.
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1334. stormdude77 23:26 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
the 18Z GFDL dissipates the system after 0 hours (immediately)....
1335. zoomiami 23:26 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
I don't see that 97L has lost any of its structure, just the thunderstorm activity to a degree. That's what is expected during this time of the evening.

Am I missing something?
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1336. nrtiwlnvragn 23:27 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
ATTENTION...NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER

NCEP COUPLED GFDL HURRICANE MODEL FORECAST MADE FOR

TROPICAL DEPRESSION INVEST 97L

INITIAL TIME 18Z JUL 19

DISCLAIMER ... THIS INFORMATION IS PROVIDED AS GUIDANCE. IT
REQUIRES INTERPRETATION BY HURRICANE SPECIALISTS AND SHOULD
NOT BE CONSIDERED AS A FINAL PRODUCT. PLEASE SEE THE TPC/NHC
OFFICIAL FORECAST.


FORECAST STORM POSITION

HOUR LATITUDE LONGITUDE HEADING/SPEED(KT)

0 11.9 52.2 270./21.0

STORM DISSIPATED AT 0 HRS AT THE ABOVE PSN.

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1337. PSLHokie 23:27 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
The wave is about to get blasted during D-Min. Watch the WV loop and the reaction of the outflow clouds to the NNW of the surface low.

In my opinion, it's survival is in question if it is inable to fire up convection before that shear is over the bulk of the storm.

Wait and see! This should be interesting!
1338. weatherwatcher12 23:28 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting stormdude77:
the 18Z GFDL dissipates the system after 0 hours (immediately)....

The GFDL is really that reliable until they have a LLC. Isn't it?
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1339. Patrap 23:28 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Vis AL97


AVN
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1340. HurricaneSwirl 23:28 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting stormdude77:
the 18Z GFDL dissipates the system after 0 hours (immediately)....


well its been 0 ours and its still alive.. XD

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1341. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod) 23:29 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
229

WHXX04 KWBC 192322

CHGQLM

ATTENTION...NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER



NCEP COUPLED GFDL HURRICANE MODEL FORECAST MADE FOR



TROPICAL DEPRESSION INVEST 97L



INITIAL TIME 18Z JUL 19



DISCLAIMER ... THIS INFORMATION IS PROVIDED AS GUIDANCE. IT

REQUIRES INTERPRETATION BY HURRICANE SPECIALISTS AND SHOULD

NOT BE CONSIDERED AS A FINAL PRODUCT. PLEASE SEE THE TPC/NHC

OFFICIAL FORECAST.





FORECAST STORM POSITION



HOUR LATITUDE LONGITUDE HEADING/SPEED(KT)



0 11.9 52.2 270./21.0



STORM DISSIPATED AT 0 HRS AT THE ABOVE PSN


here it is a second time just in case you don't see it the first
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1342. zoomiami 23:29 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Hi Pat:

Can you take either one of those images & post one from yesterday at the same time?
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1343. HaboobsRsweet 23:30 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Can someone tell me what the source is of these magically shear maps? Are they just model data or are they based off of soundings lauched over water? If thye are just model data or estimated shear maps then why are we all so quick to think shear is def going to decrease?
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1344. zoomiami 23:30 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
KOG - always the smart guy!
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1345. Drakoen 23:30 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
I give it only a 30% chance of surviving. In favor of the Upper trough ripping it limb from limb
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1346. FloridaTigers 23:30 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Koritheman, you're never on AIM :\
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1347. reedzone 23:30 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
The HWRF and GFDL dissipate the storm less then 1 day... hmmm.
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1348. Patrap 23:30 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Negative..I didnt save any in my P-bucket
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1349. HurricaneSwirl 23:30 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting reedzone:


Look on the shear map near Costa Rica.. Notice the arrows circulating in a clockwise fashion, that is an anticyclonic flow, and I think the reason why models forecasted low shear was maybe they noticed the Anticyclone.


interesting. just more factors in the possible development of 97L.. very complex situation. im just gonna lay back and see what it does. thanks for the help :)
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1350. KoritheMan 23:31 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting Drakoen:
NHC is going to keep development chances at <30%


As they should.
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1351. zoomiami 23:31 GMT le 19 juillet 2009    
Quoting Patrap:
Negative..I didnt save any in my P-bucket


Thanks anyway!
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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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