Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Strongest winter storm in at least 140 years whallops Southwest U.S.
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 16:18 GMT le 22 janvier 2010 +4
The most powerful low pressure system in 140 years of record keeping swept through the Southwest U.S. yesterday, bringing deadly flooding, tornadoes, hail, hurricane force winds, and blizzard conditions. We expect to get powerful winter storms affecting the Southwest U.S. during strong El Niño events, but yesterday's storm was truly epic in its size and intensity. The storm set all-time low pressure records over roughly 10 - 15% of the U.S.--over southern Oregon, and most of California, Nevada, Arizona, and Utah. Old records were broken by a wide margin in many locations, most notably in Los Angeles, where the old record of 29.25" set January 17, 1988, was shattered by .18" (6 mb). Bakersfield broke its record by .30" (10 mb). The record-setting low spawned an extremely intense cold front that rumbled thought the Southwest, and winds ahead of the cold front reached sustained speeds of hurricane force--74 mph--last night at Apache Junction, 40 miles east of Phoenix. Wind gusts as high as 94 mph were recorded in Ajo, Arizona, and a Personal Weather Station in Summerhaven (on top of Mt. Lemmon next to Tucson) recorded sustained winds of 67 mph, gusting to 86 mph, before the power failed. Prescott recorded sustained winds at 52 mph, gusting to 67 as the cold front passed, and high winds plunged visibility to zero in blowing dust on I-10 connecting Phoenix and Tucson. The storm spawned one possible tornado in Arizona, which touched down at 8:32 pm MST in Phoenix near Desert Ridge Mall. No damage or injuries were reported. If verified, it would be only the 7th January tornado in Arizona since record keeping began in 1950.


Figure 1. Radar reflectivity from the Phoenix Doppler radar at the time of the Phoenix tornado. The tornado touched down under the circle with a "+" inside it. The Doppler velocity image did not show any rotation to the clouds in the vicinity.

Some of the all-time low pressure records set in yesterday's storm:
Los Angeles, CA: 29.07", Old Record: 29.25", January 17, 1988
Eureka, CA: 28.90", Old Record: 28.91", February 1891
San Diego, CA: 29.15", Old Record, 29.37", March 3, 1983
Fresno, CA: 28.94", Old Record, 29.10", January 27, 1916
Bakersfield, CA: 28.94", Old Record, 29.24", February 3, 1998

Salt Lake City, UT: 28.94", Old Record, 29.00" April 2002

Reno, NV: 28.94", Old Record, 29.00", January 27, 1916
Las Vegas, NV: 29.03" Old Record: 29.17", December 1949

Phoenix, AZ: 29.22", Old Record: 29.32", May 18, 1902
Flagstaff, AZ: 29.13", Old Record: 29.15", February 7, 1937
Yuma, AZ: 29.15", Old Record: 29.37", September 12, 1927

Three tornadoes in California
Three tornadoes were reported in California yesterday. A small EF0 twister hit the east side of Ventura, leaving a 1.5 mile damage path. Another tornado hit Santa Barbara, downing trees and power poles. The most damaging California tornado yesterday touched down just west of Blythe, on the Arizona-California border, at 4:31 pm MST. The twister crossed I-10, blowing three semi trucks over, ripping the roofs off houses, and downing power lines. I-10 was closed for several hours to clear the debris and toppled trucks.

Two tornadoes also hit Southern California on Tuesday. A sheriff's deputy spotted a possible tornado in Goleta that caused some roof damage, and another tornado hit Huntington Beach, damaging boats and buildings and flipping cars.

If all five tornadoes are confirmed as genuine by the National Weather Service, it will tie the record of most January California tornadoes. The all-time record for most California tornadoes in a single day is seven, set on April 1, 1996, and November 9, 1982.


Figure 2. Radar reflectivity from the Los Angeles Doppler radar at the time of the Santa Barbara tornado.

Figure 3. Storm-relative radial velocity from the Los Angeles Doppler radar at the time of the Santa Barbara tornado. The area of yellow and orange colors, lying right next to a region of blues and greens just west of Santa Barbara shows that the winds in that region were moving towards and away from the radar in a very tight area, signifying the presence of a rotating thunderstorm and possible tornado.

The storm will continue to bring heavy rain and snow to many portions the Southwest today, then wind down on Saturday. A new storm is expected to move ashore over Northern California on Sunday night, but this storm will not be as intense. Another storm is also possible next Friday, January 29, but it appears that a renewed battering by a long succession of storms like we had this week will not occur next week.

Selected storm total snowfalls (in inches) from 7 am Sunday January 17, through 7 am PST Friday January 22:
...ARIZONA...
FLAGSTAFF 3.2 NNW 36.5
SUNRISE MOUNTAIN 29.0
FOREST LAKES 26.0
HEBER 21.0
PINETOP/LAKESIDE 4 ESE 20.4
ALPINE 20.0
CLAY SPRINGS 20.0
CLINTS WELL 19.0
KACHINA VILLAGE 18.6
WILLIAMS 16.5
PRESCOTT 7.0

...CALIFORNIA...
CHAGOOPA PLATEAU 73.6
SODA SPRINGS 63.0
SUGAR BOWL 61.0
LWR RELIEF VALLEY 50.6
KIRKWOOD 48.0
SQUAW VALLEY 47.0
SIERRA AT TAHOE 38.0
BIG BEAR CITY 37.0

...COLORADO...
DURANGO 24.0
PAGOSA SPRINGS 9 NW 24.0
SILVERTON 24.0
WOLF CREEK PASS 1 SSE 24.0
ABAJO 19.0
TELLURIDE 15.0
COAL BANK PASS 14.5
RED MTN 12.3
CREEDE 10 SW 12.0
SOUTH FORK 4 SW 12.0
MOLAS PASS 10.0

...NEW MEXICO...
JEMEZ SPRINGS 14.0
CHAMA 12.0
FARMINGTON 7 NE 10.5
AZTEC 8.0
BLUEWATER LAKE 11 WSW 8.0
BONITO LAKE 5 SW 8.0
FARMINGTON 7 NE 8.0
LUNA 8.0
KIRTLAND 2 ESE 6.0
MOGOLLON 6 ESE 6.0
RAMAH 6.0
BLOOMFIELD 3 SW 5.5
LOS ALAMOS 5.5

...NEVADA...
YUCCA FLAT 20.0
BERRY CREEK 19.0
BIG CREEK SUMMIT 16.0
DRAW CREEK 13.0
POLE CREEK R.S. 13.0
MT. POTOSI 12.0
ELY 8.3
WARD MOUNTAIN 8.0
CHARLESTON 6.0

...UTAH...
BRIGHTON CREST 35.0
ALTA/COLLINS 33.5
DEER VALLEY DALY WEST 28.0
PARK CITY JUPITER PEAK 28.0
BIG COTTONWOOD SPRUCES 19.0
SOLITUDE 17.5
SNOWBIRD 13.5

Selected storm total precipitation (in inches) from 7 am Sunday January 17, through 7 am PST Friday January 22:
...ARIZONA...
DAVIS-MONTHAN AFB/TUCSON 10.23
BLACK CANYON CITY 10 N 6.57
CROWN KING 6.50
SURPRISE 1 ESE 5.58
SUN CITY WEST 2 NNE 4.78
COTTONWOOD 1 WSW 4.63
SCOTTSDALE 5.5 NNW 4.21
NEW RIVER 5 ESE 4.05
WITTMAN 5 SW 4.05
PAYSON 4.01
PINE 1 SW 4.00
SIERRA VISTA 3.83
LUKE AFB/PHOENIX 3.58
CASTLE HOT SPRINGS 3.55
FLAGSTAFF PULLIAM AP 3.41
CLIFTON 2.96
WINSLOW 2.84
GILBERT 4 NW 2.74
CHANDLER 4 WNW 2.72
YUMA MCAF 2.43
PRESCOTT/ERNEST A LOVE FIELD AP 2.28
PHOENIX AIRPORT 2.21
TUCSON AIRPORT 0.52

...CALIFORNIA...
LOS GATOS 4 SW 14.70
CAZADERO 13.46
LYTLE CREEK 13.39
MINING RIDGE 13.14
PETROLIA 7 SE 12.17
BARTLETT SPRINGS 11.23
LAKE ARROWHEAD 11.23
ALTADENA 1 ESE 11.14
CLOVERDALE 1 S 10.30
CRESTLINE 10.27
DEVORE 9.58
DESERT HOT SPRINGS 8.04
UKIAH MUNI ARPT 7.58
NEWHALL 7.08
SANTA ROSA/SONOMA CO ARPT 6.55
SAN LUIS OBISPO ARPT 5.37
SAN DIEGO/MONTGOMERY FIELD 4.32
SAN FRANCISCO INTL ARPT 4.30
LOS ANGELES-USC 3.89
PALM SPRINGS RGNL ARPT 3.75
SACRAMENTO METRO ARPT 3.65
SAN JOSE INTL ARPT 3.19

...NEVADA...
NORTH LAS VEGAS AIRPORT 1.50
HENDERSON AIRPORT 1.17
MERCURY/DESERT ROCK ARPT 1.06

...OREGON...
AGNESS 6.4 NE 3.90
PORT ORFORD 5.0 E 3.52
BROOKINGS 4.2 ENE 2.83
BANDON 11.4 S 2.67
ASTORIA 1.45

...WASHINGTON...
HOQUIAM/BOWERMAN AIRPORT 2.01

Tornadoes, severe weather in the South
Severe weather associated with a separate storm brought damaging winds, hail, and tornadoes to portions of Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, and Florida last night. Two tornadoes were reported, one in Tennessee, and one in Alabama, near Huntsville. The Huntsville tornado injured approximately six people, and cut power to 10,000 people. The storm responsible for the severe weather has moved out to sea, and no further severe weather is expected today. A slight chance of severe weather is expected Saturday over Arkansas and Mississippi, and there is also a severe weather threat for Georgia and surrounding states on Sunday.


Figure 4. Last night's Huntsville, Alabama tornado was captured by wunderphotographer Southampton.

Portlight's Paul Timmons to appear on NBC and CNN
Portlight.org, the disaster-relief charity that has sprung up from the hard work and dedication of many members of the wunderground.com community, has successfully shipped medical equipment and a water filtration unit capable of supplying the needs of 3,500 people per day to the Dominican Republic. The relief supplies were trucked to Haiti via road, and have made it to the earthquake zone. The supplies have been targeted to go to those with disabilities, or to those who are living in areas where the main aid efforts have been inadequate. Portlight is working through the local Catholic Church, which is probably best positioned to deliver private aid donations to those in need. Paul Timmons, leader of the Portlight relief efforts, is scheduled to appear on NBC news later today, and on CNN news tomorrow, to discuss Portlight's efforts.


Figure 5. Walkers and medical supplies for Haiti getting ready to ship from the Portlight warehouse in Atlanta.

Please visit the Portlight.org blog to learn more. Floodman's blog has the latest info on Portlight's plan for Haitian relief. The Reeve Foundation, founded by Christopher and Dana Reeve has awarded Portlight Strategies a $10,000 Quality of of Life grant to assist in the relief efforts in Haiti. This is very big and will allow Portlight to pursue more aggressive relief efforts over the course of the next few weeks.

For those of you more interested in helping out with the long-term rebuilding of Haiti's shattered infrastructure from the quake, I recommend a contribution to Lambi Fund of Haiti, a charity that is very active in promoting reforestation efforts, use of alternative fuels, and infrastructure improvements at a grass-roots level in Haiti. I've developed a great respect for the work they do in the country in the five years I've been a supporter.

Next post
My next post will be Monday.

Jeff Masters
Road disappears in flood in San Luis Obispo, California (annestahl)
Cops stand by closed road.
Road disappears in flood in San Luis Obispo, California
Southern California Snow (gemd)
A Pacific storm (usually warm) came and dropped snow in Southern California in area which rarely see snow. This was not even an "insider slider" (lingo for a northern, non-Pacific cold jet stream). Snow days for schools are rampant and there are many accidents on the roadways. Our snow is not the typical fluff, but very wet and slick.
Southern California Snow
Prescott 2010 Snowstorm (kempix)
Heavy Snowstorm came in last night with almost a foot of snow in the mountains of Prescott.
Prescott 2010 Snowstorm
Bad Luck (scphotos)
the ocean in Santa Barbara takes no prisoners
Bad Luck
Blue Thunder Bolt (LianesLightroom)
Amazing bolt of lightning strikes the Pacific Ocean in Manhattan Beach, CA.
Blue Thunder Bolt
Shrouded in Clouds (ChandlerMike)
I took a drive this morning to document some of this amazing weather we're having in Arizona. My path took me over to the Superstition Mountains east of Phoenix and I beheld some sights that I don't expect to see again. (HDR)
Shrouded in Clouds
Categories: Winter Weather
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151. NEwxguy 20:41 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting Floodman:
You know, there are a lot of us in here doing work for Portlight and we're all of us getting a little worn around the edges. There are those here who are dealing with incredibly bad weather and they're getting worn out too.

I ask that everyone take these things into account; a little more tolerance, even if you might have a personal issue with someone, would go a long way towards keeping the blog a little easier to read and a better place to be...there is a place here for humor (easy for me to say, being the class clown and all) and a little humor makes life easier for all of us...

Okay, I'm off my soapbox; you may now throw things at me...


Throws snowballs at him.
Member Since: 6 septembre 2007 Posts: 820 Comments: 13276
152. tornadodude 20:42 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting CaneWarning:


The article should say something like, it's the warmest decade measured in the past two or three decades or something like that.


exactly, it's pretty dumb to say it was the warmest ever. To say that this was the warmest ten year span on a planet that is supposedly a few billion years old is flat out ridiculous.
Member Since: 28 juin 2006 Posts: 22 Comments: 7816
153. Patrap 20:42 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
I believe thermometers are a tad older than 2-3 decades,and to be sure,,the English,Spanish and other early World Mariners kept meticulous records from SST's to currents to astronomical measurements.

Cuz they depended on them,for their economies,Warring,and well,cuz they were a tad curious.

But hey,thats just my Logic.


Go against the grain all one wants..but it dosent change the science and facts as they are in reality.

And ALL the consensus of the science community regard the current theory as stated on the Atmospheres Warming as well as surface temps..





Gaia dont blog,,..but shes a BIG time Lurker I hear



"Snicker,grin,..ack"..
Member Since: 3 juillet 2005 Posts: 377 Comments: 112968
154. tornadodude 20:43 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting NEwxguy:


Throws snowballs at him.


throws a thong at him? Lol
Member Since: 28 juin 2006 Posts: 22 Comments: 7816
155. CaneWarning 20:44 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Thermometers are older than two or three decades, but at the same time, the ones we have now are certainly much better than what they had many years ago. They are also more widespread. Silly stuff going on here.
Member Since: 26 avril 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 3667
156. drg0dOwnCountry 20:46 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting CaneWarning:


The article should say something like, it's the warmest decade measured in the past two or three decades or something like that.

You are wrong canewarning.

The temperature record shows the fluctuations of the temperature of the atmosphere and the oceans through various spans of time. The most detailed information exists since 1850, when methodical thermometer-based records began. There are numerous estimates of temperatures since the end of the Pleistocene glaciation, particularly during the current Holocene epoch. Older time periods are studied by paleoclimatology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_records
Member Since: 22 septembre 2005 Posts: 11 Comments: 1957
157. NEwxguy 20:47 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting tornadodude:


throws a thong at him? Lol


Wondering where that thong came from.....Nevermind don't want to know.
Member Since: 6 septembre 2007 Posts: 820 Comments: 13276
158. TheCaneWhisperer 20:47 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting tornadodude:


exactly, it's pretty dumb to say it was the warmest ever. To say that this was the warmest ten year span on a planet that is supposedly a few billion years old is flat out ridiculous.


That wouldn't sell or attract readers though. A statement like that can't be proven nor dis-proven so it runs to grab attention.
159. Patrap 20:47 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting CaneWarning:
Thermometers are older than two or three decades, but at the same time, the ones we have now are certainly much better than what they had many years ago. They are also more widespread. Silly stuff going on here.


Yes,your line about silliness certainly applies.
Member Since: 3 juillet 2005 Posts: 377 Comments: 112968
160. CaneWarning 20:48 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting drg0dOwnCountry:

Wrong.

The temperature record shows the fluctuations of the temperature of the atmosphere and the oceans through various spans of time. The most detailed information exists since 1850, when methodical thermometer-based records began. There are numerous estimates of temperatures since the end of the Pleistocene glaciation, particularly during the current Holocene epoch. Older time periods are studied by paleoclimatology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_records


Yes, and we know how accurate those old thermometers might be. I would think the urbanization of many areas alone have caused thermometers to record warmer temps than before. But that's just me. I could honestly care less if the earth is warming or cooling because I believe its all a natural thing and nothing to worry about.
Member Since: 26 avril 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 3667
161. tornadodude 20:48 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting drg0dOwnCountry:

Wrong.

The temperature record shows the fluctuations of the temperature of the atmosphere and the oceans through various spans of time. The most detailed information exists since 1850, when methodical thermometer-based records began. There are numerous estimates of temperatures since the end of the Pleistocene glaciation, particularly during the current Holocene epoch. Older time periods are studied by paleoclimatology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_records


You cant use estimates to say that this was the warmest decade ever. In order to actually do this scientifically, one would have to use one type of thermometer in similar locations across the world and measure the temperatures for a set period of time. Consistency breeds accuracy.
Member Since: 28 juin 2006 Posts: 22 Comments: 7816
162. abrahambenjudea 20:49 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Oh, Oh...I got it. So when the waters of in the Atlantic send us storm after storm during Hurricane season. We can say we have a 'MALCRIADO' event, Miscreant event if you will.
163. tornadodude 20:49 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting NEwxguy:


Wondering where that thong came from.....Nevermind don't want to know.


LOL
Member Since: 28 juin 2006 Posts: 22 Comments: 7816
164. CaneWarning 20:50 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting tornadodude:


You cant use estimates to say that this was the warmest decade ever. In order to actually do this scientifically, one would have to use one type of thermometers in similar locations across the world and measure the temperatures for a set period of time. Consistency breeds accuracy.


Bingo.
Member Since: 26 avril 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 3667
165. CaneWarning 20:50 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting NEwxguy:


Wondering where that thong came from.....Nevermind don't want to know.


I was wondering where mine went...
Member Since: 26 avril 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 3667
166. Floodman 20:50 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting tornadodude:


throws a thong at him? Lol


Ummm, dude? That's highly suspect...
Member Since: 2 août 2006 Posts: 10 Comments: 9919
167. tornadodude 20:51 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting Floodman:


Ummm, dude? That's highly suspect...


haha does my avatar help any?
Member Since: 28 juin 2006 Posts: 22 Comments: 7816
168. Minnemike 20:51 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting tornadodude:


exactly, it's pretty dumb to say it was the warmest ever. To say that this was the warmest ten year span on a planet that is supposedly a few billion years old is flat out ridiculous.

I hope we can all agree that this article is ridiculous, lacking any caveat of time frame. 'Ever' cannot possibly be substantiated by any science I know of... and I'm someone who has no problem digesting the science that AGW may be occurring. Atmo.. here is a shining example of the point you were making about reporters and their output of science.
Member Since: 31 juillet 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 1266
169. drg0dOwnCountry 20:51 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting tornadodude:


El Nino:

strange guy in video

El Niño is Spanish for "the boy" and refers to the Christ child, because periodic warming in the Pacific near South America is usually noticed around Christmas. "La Niña" is Spanish for "the girl."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_nino
Member Since: 22 septembre 2005 Posts: 11 Comments: 1957
170. Floodman 20:51 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting CaneWarning:


I was wondering where mine went...


Oh, oh...damn, y'all! Has anyone seen the eye bleach?
Member Since: 2 août 2006 Posts: 10 Comments: 9919
171. jeffs713 20:51 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting abrahambenjudea:
Ok I got one opinion... about what constitutes an El Nino. Don't all of you write at once you'll jam the keys. My understanding of an El Boy event is when the warm waters from the pacific throws storm after storm for months at a time. Still I can't believe that such a frequently quoted weather event is not clearly defined.

El Nino is generally defined as an abnormal warming of the equatorial Pacific ocean between 120 and 180 degrees west longitude. A 0.5C anomaly is required to qualify for a "weak" El Nino.
Member Since: 3 août 2008 Posts: 15 Comments: 5729
172. Floodman 20:52 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting tornadodude:


haha does my avatar help any?


As a married man, I have no comment...
Member Since: 2 août 2006 Posts: 10 Comments: 9919
173. CaneWarning 20:52 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting Floodman:


Oh, oh...damn, y'all! Has anyone seen the eye bleach?


LOL
Member Since: 26 avril 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 3667
174. tornadodude 20:53 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting Floodman:


As a married man, I have no comment...


LOL
Member Since: 28 juin 2006 Posts: 22 Comments: 7816
175. Patrap 20:54 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
I go with the learned method of published peer reviewed established protocols on the matter of debate...as its the way its done.

That's how we evole Ideas to try and protect the future

.

And I never ever get a answer as to where all the atmospherics pollutants go, from those on the denial side of things.

Them Co2 fairies and Methane Poofing Pixies that some believe in ,..never seem to tell us How they "Magically" poof away all the massive pollutants away while we sleep.


Personally,,.I think they use a Harry Potter Wand..

Sold exclusively at your Local Walgreens,next to the Chapstick.

Member Since: 3 juillet 2005 Posts: 377 Comments: 112968
176. Floodman 20:54 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
As I'm reading the backblog, I would have expected NEwxguy to jump up from behind a car and tink me with a snowball...
Member Since: 2 août 2006 Posts: 10 Comments: 9919
177. NEwxguy 20:55 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Flood,I started with throwing snowballs and look where it went from there,never can predict where this blog is going to end up,ROFL.
Member Since: 6 septembre 2007 Posts: 820 Comments: 13276
178. drg0dOwnCountry 20:57 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting tornadodude:
You cant use estimates to say that this was the warmest decade ever.
Should i belive NOAA and NASA, world weather/climate science or should i belive the "claim" of a blog poster calling himself tornadodude?
Member Since: 22 septembre 2005 Posts: 11 Comments: 1957
179. CaneWarning 20:57 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
MISSING:

1 THONG
Member Since: 26 avril 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 3667
180. CaneWarning 20:58 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting drg0dOwnCountry:
Should i belive NOAA and NASA, world weather/climate science or should i belive the "claim" of a blog poster calling himself tornadodude?


I personally wouldn't believe either one. Just because you have the name of NOAA or NASA doesn't mean you are always right.
Member Since: 26 avril 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 3667
181. Floodman 20:59 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting Minnemike:

I hope we can all agree that this article is ridiculous, lacking any caveat of time frame. 'Ever' cannot possibly be substantiated by any science I know of... and I'm someone who has no problem digesting the science that AGW may be occurring. Atmo.. here is a shining example of the point you were making about reporters and their output of science.


it's all about frame of reference; journalists want to get read and the more over the top a statement they can make, the happier they are...

The more actual science I see, the more I believe that the CC going on is a more moderate (though still catastrophic) process.

Again, anyone that denies based on what Rush Limbaugh had to say is just as wrong as the far left attiude that the worst case scenario is the actual case...the science doesn't "prove" either of the extremes but it begins to make a very good case for the middle ground
Member Since: 2 août 2006 Posts: 10 Comments: 9919
182. IKE 20:59 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
LOL...maybe I shouldn't have put that link on here about NASA's findings....
Member Since: 9 juin 2005 Posts: 23 Comments: 37070
183. tornadodude 21:00 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting drg0dOwnCountry:
Should i belive NOAA and NASA, world weather/climate science or should i belive the "claim" of a blog poster calling himself tornadodude?


or one who accidentally hit the caps lock key a few times when typing his screen name in?
Member Since: 28 juin 2006 Posts: 22 Comments: 7816
184. Floodman 21:00 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting Patrap:
I go with the learned method of published peer reviewed established protocols on the matter of debate...as its the way its done.

That's how we evole Ideas to try and protect the future

.

And I never ever get a answer as to where all the atmospherics pollutants go, from those on the denial side of things.

Them Co2 fairies and Methane Poofing Pixies that some believe in ,..never seem to tell us How they "Magically" poof away all the massive pollutants away while we sleep.


Personally,,.I think they use a Harry Potter Wand..

Sold exclusively at your Local Walgreens,next to the Chapstick.



LOL
Member Since: 2 août 2006 Posts: 10 Comments: 9919
185. IKE 21:01 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Drama on da blogs! WOOHOO!
Member Since: 9 juin 2005 Posts: 23 Comments: 37070
186. Patrap 21:01 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
That Guy with the jerry Garcia Avatar is a wise owl fo sho...


"..In da middle"..wooooo!!!!
Member Since: 3 juillet 2005 Posts: 377 Comments: 112968
187. CaneWarning 21:02 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
I actually do have a Harry Potter wand that someone got me. It works too. I just solved global warming the other day with one wave of that wand.
Member Since: 26 avril 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 3667
188. CaneWarning 21:02 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting IKE:
Drama on da blogs! WOOHOO!


Is there ever a time when there is not drama on the blog?
Member Since: 26 avril 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 3667
189. Minnemike 21:04 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
#178, i have understanding for your case, but please use some good logic of your own to see through this one. even if the article, as it states 'ever' is correct, there is no way we can substantiate that as fact. CNN requires attention, and this claim seems both sensational, and lacking in the kind of detail NOAA/NASA folks would probably have added in light of such a grand statement. even a simple 'May have been..' would be far better; showing that the data trends information in a direction such as the atmosphere is extra warm now. such a statement as 'warmest decade ever' just adds fuel to the fallacy debate fire.
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190. tornadodude 21:05 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
;)
Member Since: 28 juin 2006 Posts: 22 Comments: 7816
191. IKE 21:05 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting CaneWarning:


Is there ever a time when there is not drama on the blog?


Good question....nowadays? No.
Member Since: 9 juin 2005 Posts: 23 Comments: 37070
192. Seastep 21:05 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting drg0dOwnCountry:
Should i belive NOAA and NASA, world weather/climate science or should i belive the "claim" of a blog poster calling himself tornadodude?


Just go by sat temps. I like UAH, but they're all pretty close. Only apples-to-apples, truly global, comparison we have.
Member Since: 9 septembre 2008 Posts: 6 Comments: 3407
193. tornadodude 21:06 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting IKE:


Good question....nowadays? No.


Ive only been here since early 2006, and there was drama then. ST, MichaelSTL, all the tunneling people LOL and more
Member Since: 28 juin 2006 Posts: 22 Comments: 7816
194. Floodman 21:07 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting drg0dOwnCountry:
Should i belive NOAA and NASA, world weather/climate science or should i belive the "claim" of a blog poster calling himself tornadodude?


Believe what you wish; you've made some rather outlandish claims in here yourself...the link between CC and the Haiti earthquake, I mean, really?
Member Since: 2 août 2006 Posts: 10 Comments: 9919
195. drg0dOwnCountry 21:08 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting CaneWarning:


Yes, and we know how accurate those old thermometers might be.
No, i don't and obviously nobody else.

thermometer-based records since 1850
Tropospheric temperature (the satellite and balloon temperature records) since 1950
Proxies: tree rings, ice cores: the last 2000 years
Indirect historical proxies
Paleoclimate
The long term ice core record: the last 800,000 years
Geologic evidence of past temperature changes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_records

The basis for your assumption is again?
Member Since: 22 septembre 2005 Posts: 11 Comments: 1957
196. CaneWarning 21:08 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting tornadodude:


Ive only been here since early 2006, and there was drama then. ST, MichaelSTL, all the tunneling people LOL and more


I found the blog Katrina while was hitting Miami. I can't even remember the screen name I used at that time. I didn't post much.
Member Since: 26 avril 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 3667
197. IKE 21:08 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting tornadodude:


Ive only been here since early 2006, and there was drama then. ST, MichaelSTL, all the tunneling people LOL and more


Yup.

There are more posts being made on here this Atlantic off-season, then I can ever recall.
Member Since: 9 juin 2005 Posts: 23 Comments: 37070
198. tornadodude 21:09 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting drg0dOwnCountry:
No, i don't and obviously nobody else.

thermometer-based records since 1850
Tropospheric temperature (the satellite and balloon temperature records) since 1950
Proxies: tree rings, ice cores: the last 2000 years
Indirect historical proxies
Paleoclimate
The long term ice core record: the last 800,000 years
Geologic evidence of past temperature changes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_records

THe basis for your assumption is again?


Even 800,000 years is not long enough to claim this decade as the warmest ever, when the earth is supposedly 4.6 billion years old.
Member Since: 28 juin 2006 Posts: 22 Comments: 7816
199. drg0dOwnCountry 21:09 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting Floodman:


Believe what you wish; you've made some rather outlandish claims in here yourself...the link between CC and the Haiti earthquake, I mean, really?

What you talking about?
Member Since: 22 septembre 2005 Posts: 11 Comments: 1957
200. Floodman 21:09 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting CaneWarning:


Is there ever a time when there is not drama on the blog?


I've been here since 2004 (mostly in those days as a lurker and reader of the info). I'll be honest with you, aside from a few days, in the wee hours of the morning, there has always been some sort of drama here...LOL
Member Since: 2 août 2006 Posts: 10 Comments: 9919
201. tornadodude 21:09 GMT le 22 janvier 2010    
Quoting IKE:


Yup.

There are more posts being made on here this Atlantic off-season, then I can ever recall.


yeah, we used to go days with only 3 or 4 posts.. hmm
Member Since: 28 juin 2006 Posts: 22 Comments: 7816

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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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