Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Tropical Depression Two forms from Invest 98L
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 21:33 GMT le 17 juillet 2011 +0
Tropical Depression Two (TD2) formed from Invest 98L this afternoon. Hurricane Hunters flew into the suspect area and found a surface circulation north of the Bahamas, with maximum sustained winds of 35 mph. They also determined the system had become warm core—a characteristic that must be present in order to declare a tropical cyclone. Satellite imagery continues to show the system is becoming more organized with a stronger circulation. Wind shear is forecast to remain favorable for the system until Tuesday or Wednesday when higher shear will slide in from the north. Sea surface temperatures are warm enough to sustain a tropical storm.


Figure 1. Satellite imagery of Tropical Depression Two in the Atlantic, east of Florida. This graphic will update to the current satellite imagery.


Figure 2. Official 5-day forecast for Tropical Depression Two. This graphic will remain current.

Forecast for TD2

The models are coming into better agreement as TD2 has become more organized. In terms of dynamical forecast models, the HWRF and GFS both forecast TD2 to max out just above tropical storm strenth. HWRF intensifies TD2 to around 47 mph in the next 24 hours, whereas GFS is a bit slower to bring the system up to tropical storm status. Two statistical models, the DSHP (SHIPS model that includes land interaction) and the LGEM (Logistical Growth Equation Model) both intensify TD2 to a moderate tropical storm over the next 2-3 days.

There tends to be a lot of uncertainty involved with tropical cyclones that form under these circumstances, but our forecast remains in line with the National Hurricane Center and the reliable forecast models. TD2 will move slowly to the northeast in weak steering currents over the next few days before eventually becoming an extratropical storm. There is minimal chance that this system will cross over Florida into the Gulf of Mexico. Timing and path depend heavily on how intense the cyclone gets, as Jeff mentioned in his blog earlier today. A weaker storm will tend to stay south, whereas a stronger storm will grow taller in the atmosphere and winds at higher levels will influence it and steer it northeast.

None of the reliable models predict tropical cyclone development over the remainder of the Atlantic through July 23.

Angela
Categories: Hurricane
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601. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod) 03:07 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Member Since: 15 juillet 2006 Posts: 144 Comments: 40658
602. BahaHurican 03:08 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Plus it's 11 p.m. on Sunday night. Pple the NHC would call are likely asleep right now... lol

Hey, it's a small place. lol
Member Since: 25 octobre 2005 Posts: 19 Comments: 17683
603. stillwaiting 03:08 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
the most likely path imo opinion is xrtp thru 6hrs,then a path simular to the lbar..
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604. RukusBoondocks 03:09 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
None of the reliable models predict tropical cyclone development over the remainder of the Atlantic through July 23.


oops I guess Bret didnt count
Member Since: 13 février 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 294
605. extreme236 03:10 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Hey everybody! I've been busy so it's been a while since I've posted. Been lurking for a while though. I see Bret's looking pretty ragged. It's gonna need a good night, thats for sure.
Member Since: 2 août 2007 Posts: 19 Comments: 19234
606. 1911maker 03:10 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
space shuttle cockpit 360


Link
Member Since: 25 février 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 436
607. AllStar17 03:10 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
A reminder that things change:
Hurricane Ernesto initial projected path:


Actual track:
Member Since: 29 juin 2009 Posts: 13 Comments: 5135
608. coastaltugcaptain 03:11 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
A 2300 update as promised. I will have the baro looked at in port.

Time: 2300
Position: 29 10.00 N 80 54.47 W
4 nm ESE Daytona Beach, FL.

Course: 159 True
Speed: 6.8 Knots

Seas: 4’ – 5’
Wind: ESE 15 – 20
Baro: Malfunctioning
Member Since: 8 octobre 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 6
609. CaicosRetiredSailor 03:11 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Member Since: 12 juillet 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 5139
610. BahaHurican 03:11 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Anyway, I'm pretty much gone for now. If I wake up, I'll look in at 2 a.m. Otherwise I'll see u guys in the a.m. and hopefully over a cup of coffee and not a hastily brewing TS... lol

night all...

Member Since: 25 octobre 2005 Posts: 19 Comments: 17683
611. SouthDadeFish 03:12 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting extreme236:
Hey everybody! I've been busy so it's been a while since I've posted. Been lurking for a while though. I see Bret's looking pretty ragged. It's gonna need a good night, thats for sure.
Hey extreme! good to have you here. I agree, pretty ragged indeed. Needs a burst over the center to get the intensification process started.
Member Since: 12 août 2007 Posts: 11 Comments: 2418
612. weathermanwannabe 03:13 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Interesting discussion language from this particular NHC forecaster: PEAK FLIGHT-LEVEL WINDS OF 43-45 KT WERE RECORDED ALONG WITH A FEW BELIEVABLE SFMR
SURFACE WINDS JUST ABOVE TROPICAL STORM FORCE. BASED ON THESE OBSERVATIONS AND THE DEVELOPMENT OF NEW CONVECTION JUST NORTHEAST OF THE CENTER AROUND 0000 UTC...THE DEPRESSION WAS UPGRADED TO A TROPICAL STORM AT THAT TIME
. Justifying the techinal requirements for calling the TS I but never thought they would use the term "believable"; makes you think there was a little bit of debate over there as to the call.
Member Since: 8 août 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 6703
613. SouthDadeFish 03:14 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting AllStar17:
A reminder that things change:
Hurricane Ernesto initial projected path:


Actual track:
All the dynamical models unanimously forecast Bret to move NE. I think the real issue is how close he will come to the North Carolina coast.
Member Since: 12 août 2007 Posts: 11 Comments: 2418
614. BahaHurican 03:14 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting extreme236:
Hey everybody! I've been busy so it's been a while since I've posted. Been lurking for a while though. I see Bret's looking pretty ragged. It's gonna need a good night, thats for sure.
Wow... extreme236! Great to see u! Bret's likely to have a good night, given his location, but maybe not so good otherwise...

I'm off now, but looking to see more of u as the season progresses...
Member Since: 25 octobre 2005 Posts: 19 Comments: 17683
615. wolftribe2009 03:14 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting AllStar17:
A reminder that things change:
Hurricane Ernesto initial projected path:


Actual track:


you should have shown Hurricane Jeanee of 2004 "She did that loopy thing"

People thought she was going out towards sea too.
Member Since: 22 juillet 2010 Posts: 6 Comments: 752
616. philliesrock 03:15 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
I don't see why some people think Bret will come up the coast. There's nothing allowing it to do that.
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617. AllStar17 03:15 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting SouthDadeFish:
All the dynamical models unanimously forecast Bret to move NE. I think the real issue is how close he will come to the North Carolina coast.


I'm not arguing that but the projected path always can shift left or right a good distance. The main point is that the US coast should keep watching in case.
Member Since: 29 juin 2009 Posts: 13 Comments: 5135
618. extreme236 03:17 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting BahaHurican:
Wow... extreme236! Great to see u! Bret's likely to have a good night, given his location, but maybe not so good otherwise...

I'm off now, but looking to see more of u as the season progresses...


Good to see you too! And yeah the ragged ones tend to pull surprises so we could see a more impressive storm in the morning. I hope to try to spend some more time on here when I get the chance, but have a good one!
Member Since: 2 août 2007 Posts: 19 Comments: 19234
619. SouthDadeFish 03:18 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting AllStar17:


I'm not arguing that but the projected path always can shift left or right a good distance. The main point is that the US coast should keep watching in case.
I completely agree. The GFDL and HWRF may be onto something.
Member Since: 12 août 2007 Posts: 11 Comments: 2418
620. coastaltugcaptain 03:18 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting 1911maker:
space shuttle cockpit 360


Link



That's awesome! My kids will love this.
Member Since: 8 octobre 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 6
621. AllStar17 03:19 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting SouthDadeFish:
I completely agree. The GFDL and HWRF may be onto something.


Yes and the NHC mentioned them but discounted them as of now.

" THE LATEST HWRF AND GFDL MODEL
FORECASTS SHOW A MORE NORTH-NORTHEASTWARD MOTION WITH A TRACK MUCH
CLOSER TO THE UNITED STATES THAN THE USUALLY RELIABLE ECMWF AND GFS
MODELS. THIS SCENARIO APPEARS UNLIKELY DUE TO THE STRENGTH OF THE
MID- TO UPPER-LEVEL RIDGE FORECAST OVER THE CENTRAL UNITED STATES.
FOR NOW...THE OFFICIAL FORECAST PLACES MORE WEIGHT ON THE GLOBAL
MODELS AND IS VERY SIMILAR TO THE PREVIOUS NHC TRACK."
Member Since: 29 juin 2009 Posts: 13 Comments: 5135
622. SouthDadeFish 03:20 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting philliesrock:
I don't see why some people think Bret will come up the coast. There's nothing allowing it to do that.
If the ridge over the central US isn't as strong as forecast or moves slower than forecast, Bret would move closer to the coast.
Member Since: 12 août 2007 Posts: 11 Comments: 2418
623. ProgressivePulse 03:21 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting AllStar17:
A reminder that things change:
Hurricane Ernesto initial projected path:


Actual track:


All due respect however, if you look at the actual path to the SE Cuba coast, Ernesto was on the extreme right side of that initial cone.
Member Since: 19 août 2005 Posts: 5 Comments: 4333
624. Chucktown 03:22 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting AllStar17:


I'm not arguing that but the projected path always can shift left or right a good distance. The main point is that the US coast should keep watching in case.


Even if there is a shift in the track, all the moisture is going to be on the right side of Bret. There is a tremendous amount of dry air and subsidence over the SE US, so this is not going to be an issue for anyone.
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625. 19N81W 03:22 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
wow bret looks impressive!....really?
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626. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod) 03:22 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting RukusBoondocks:
None of the reliable models predict tropical cyclone development over the remainder of the Atlantic through July 23.


oops I guess Bret didnt count
stop being a dufus rukus
Member Since: 15 juillet 2006 Posts: 144 Comments: 40658
627. SouthDadeFish 03:23 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting ProgressivePulse:


All due respect however, if you look at the actual path to the SE Cuba coast, Ernesto was on the extreme right side of that initial cone.
Plus I think the cone means on average a storm passes through some point in the cone 2/3 of the time. As a result, somewhere down the road you're gunna run into those 1/3 storms. I'm not positive on the figure but it's something like that.
Member Since: 12 août 2007 Posts: 11 Comments: 2418
628. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod) 03:24 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting extreme236:
Hey everybody! I've been busy so it's been a while since I've posted. Been lurking for a while though. I see Bret's looking pretty ragged. It's gonna need a good night, thats for sure.
well hello 236
Member Since: 15 juillet 2006 Posts: 144 Comments: 40658
629. AllStar17 03:24 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
I'm not trying to argue anything. I'm just trying to create a conversation.
Member Since: 29 juin 2009 Posts: 13 Comments: 5135
630. ProgressivePulse 03:25 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Come on NoGaps.

Member Since: 19 août 2005 Posts: 5 Comments: 4333
631. weathermanwannabe 03:26 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Good Night Folks and see everyone in the am......
Member Since: 8 août 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 6703
632. HurricaneHunterJoe 03:27 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting druseljic:
The moisture over S Fl has reached out and touched Bret...

LOL nice one
Member Since: 18 septembre 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 2697
633. HurricaneHunterJoe 03:28 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
thats how my brain feels after 12 hours on this blog................LOL
Member Since: 18 septembre 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 2697
635. ProgressivePulse 03:32 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
For what it's worth. The continental high has backed off quite a bit in 3 hours.

Current



-3hrs

Member Since: 19 août 2005 Posts: 5 Comments: 4333
636. 19N81W 03:32 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
bret never looked like anything just had to keep the numbers up or else funding drops...I have seen super cells over the US dwarf bret
Member Since: 24 août 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 332
637. presslord 03:35 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting Chucktown:


Even if there is a shift in the track, all the moisture is going to be on the right side of Bret. There is a tremendous amount of dry air and subsidence over the SE US, so this is not going to be an issue for anyone.


buzzkill
Member Since: 13 août 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 10377
638. presslord 03:36 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting 19N81W:
bret never looked like anything just had to keep the numbers up or else funding drops...I have seen super cells over the US dwarf bret


buzzkill
Member Since: 13 août 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 10377
639. Chucktown 03:37 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting presslord:


buzzkill


Press, what are you still doing up - hopefully watchin the Mighty 5 !! No Bret for the Lowcountry, although another dose of rain wouldn't hurt.
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640. Tazmanian 03:38 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
too me BRET has weakin a lot from this AM
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641. 19N81W 03:39 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
its not a buzzkill just a small low with some limited convection not sure how or who in the nhc decided to name it but i am quite sure that if they applied the same rules to all lows with associated convection we would have run out of names long ago...
Member Since: 24 août 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 332
642. TomTaylor 03:40 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting 19N81W:
bret never looked like anything just had to keep the numbers up or else funding drops...I have seen super cells over the US dwarf bret
well it is a tropical storm, and that is why it received a name...not because naming storms increases funding.
Member Since: 24 août 2010 Posts: 18 Comments: 3906
643. tropicfreak 03:41 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting philliesrock:
I don't see why some people think Bret will come up the coast. There's nothing allowing it to do that.


Hey phillies!! Long time no see! How have you been?
Member Since: 2 septembre 2006 Posts: 110 Comments: 6566
644. TomTaylor 03:43 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting 19N81W:
its not a buzzkill just a small low with some limited convection not sure how or who in the nhc decided to name it but i am quite sure that if they applied the same rules to all lows with associated convection we would have run out of names long ago...
at the time it was named, it had convection over the center, making it warm core, winds that met the definition of a tropical storm, and a closed circulation.

How is that not a tropical storm? Please, quit down talking the NHC as if you could do the job better.
Member Since: 24 août 2010 Posts: 18 Comments: 3906
645. 19N81W 03:43 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
tom its nothing...but it is mid July..better name somthing...do i need to post a sat pic?...or any of them in its life cycle...i flew past it 3 times in 4 days and not a bump...there is more to this than u think
Member Since: 24 août 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 332
646. presslord 03:43 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting Chucktown:


Press, what are you still doing up - hopefully watchin the Mighty 5 !! No Bret for the Lowcountry, although another dose of rain wouldn't hurt.


yup....keep things a little cooler
Member Since: 13 août 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 10377
647. druseljic 03:45 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting Tazmanian:
too me BRET has weakin a lot from this AM
It's definitely playing in the minor leagues right now. Seems to be trying to fire up a bit in the last few frames of the WV.

Btw, Running on Nightly now and loving it. Thanks for turning me on to it!
Member Since: 13 août 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 649
648. sunlinepr 03:47 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Tsunami Airglow Signature Could Lead to Early Detection System


Airglow waves captured by the Illinois imaging system over Hawaii. The red line represents the location of the ocean-level tsunami at the time of the image. (Credit: Image courtesy of University of Illinois College of Engineering)

ScienceDaily (July 14, 2011) — Researchers at the University of Illinois have become the first to record an airglow signature in the upper atmosphere produced by a tsunami using a camera system based in Maui, Hawaii.

The signature, caused by the March 11 earthquake that devastated Japan, was observed in an airglow layer 250 kilometers above Earth's surface. It preceded the tsunami by one hour, suggesting that the technology could be used as an early-warning system in the future. The findings were recently published in the peer-reviewed Geophysical Research Letters....

Link
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649. hunkerdown 03:48 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting 19N81W:
its not a buzzkill just a small low with some limited convection not sure how or who in the nhc decided to name it but i am quite sure that if they applied the same rules to all lows with associated convection we would have run out of names long ago...
Hurricane Hunter data "named it"
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650. hunkerdown 03:50 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting 19N81W:
tom its nothing...but it is mid July..better name somthing...do i need to post a sat pic?...or any of them in its life cycle...i flew past it 3 times in 4 days and not a bump...there is more to this than u think
and of course, you know better...same trash, different season.
Member Since: 15 août 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 2514
651. TomTaylor 03:50 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting 19N81W:
tom its nothing...but it is mid July..better name somthing...do i need to post a sat pic?...or any of them in its life cycle...i flew past it 3 times in 4 days and not a bump...there is more to this than u think
So a warm core system with tropical storm force winds and a closed circulation is not a tropical storm?

How much turbulance you happen to experience in your little trek over the storm, and how poor the storm looks on satellite imagery, convection-wise, has absolutely nothing to do with storm classification.

adios
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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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