Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Tropical Depression Two forms from Invest 98L
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 21:33 GMT le 17 juillet 2011 +0
Tropical Depression Two (TD2) formed from Invest 98L this afternoon. Hurricane Hunters flew into the suspect area and found a surface circulation north of the Bahamas, with maximum sustained winds of 35 mph. They also determined the system had become warm core—a characteristic that must be present in order to declare a tropical cyclone. Satellite imagery continues to show the system is becoming more organized with a stronger circulation. Wind shear is forecast to remain favorable for the system until Tuesday or Wednesday when higher shear will slide in from the north. Sea surface temperatures are warm enough to sustain a tropical storm.


Figure 1. Satellite imagery of Tropical Depression Two in the Atlantic, east of Florida. This graphic will update to the current satellite imagery.


Figure 2. Official 5-day forecast for Tropical Depression Two. This graphic will remain current.

Forecast for TD2

The models are coming into better agreement as TD2 has become more organized. In terms of dynamical forecast models, the HWRF and GFS both forecast TD2 to max out just above tropical storm strenth. HWRF intensifies TD2 to around 47 mph in the next 24 hours, whereas GFS is a bit slower to bring the system up to tropical storm status. Two statistical models, the DSHP (SHIPS model that includes land interaction) and the LGEM (Logistical Growth Equation Model) both intensify TD2 to a moderate tropical storm over the next 2-3 days.

There tends to be a lot of uncertainty involved with tropical cyclones that form under these circumstances, but our forecast remains in line with the National Hurricane Center and the reliable forecast models. TD2 will move slowly to the northeast in weak steering currents over the next few days before eventually becoming an extratropical storm. There is minimal chance that this system will cross over Florida into the Gulf of Mexico. Timing and path depend heavily on how intense the cyclone gets, as Jeff mentioned in his blog earlier today. A weaker storm will tend to stay south, whereas a stronger storm will grow taller in the atmosphere and winds at higher levels will influence it and steer it northeast.

None of the reliable models predict tropical cyclone development over the remainder of the Atlantic through July 23.

Angela
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901. SouthDadeFish 06:44 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting Stormchaser2007:


Still 4-5 hours of the diurnal maximum for this to organize.
True but the environment its in could be more favorable. 10-15 knots of wind shear and dry air getting pushed in from the NW. Although that pressure drop was impressive he may have leveled off for now. But knowing the tropics, I'll go to sleep now and he'll bomb into a hurricane. Goodnight everyone, I hope I didn't cause too many problems, just trying to offer my differing opinion. Everyone here teaches me a lot so I thank you all :~)
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902. TomTaylor 06:44 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting MiamiHurricanes09:
That is true, but in this case it depends on the perimeters present in the atmosphere. There is an upper-level ridge located over the United States that would influence the steering of Bret, should it intensify to the point that it can feel deep-layer steering.
I believe what the BAM suite was trying to show was that the more the system intensifies, the more it will be pulled to the NE (as Dr. Masters had mentioned). However, should Bret intensify enough to be steered by the deep layer (cat 2/3 hurricane) it would be steered more by the ridge allowing it to head west.

That may no longer be the case as these are fairly old model runs (8pm EDT), but at the time when the models were run, this is what the BAM suite was indicating...intensification would allow it to move more the NE, but if it intensified even more, then it would actually go to the west.
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904. cchsweatherman 06:46 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting SouthDadeFish:
True but the environment its in could be more favorable. 10-15 knots of wind shear and dry air getting pushed in from the NW. Although that pressure drop was impressive he may have leveled off for now. But knowing the tropics, I'll go to sleep now and he'll bomb into a hurricane. Goodnight everyone, I hope I didn't cause too many problems, just trying to offer my differing opinion. Everyone here teaches me a lot so I thank you all :~)


All opinions are welcome just as long as their civil. This is all a learning community pretty much.
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905. wxhatt 06:47 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting VAbeachhurricanes:
Bret still has plenty of work to do to become even close to a hurricane, satellite presentation still only a comma shape.


your right, never seen a sat presentation like that for strong TS
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906. HurricaneHunterJoe 06:47 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting cchsweatherman:
Just did some analysis and noticed that the trough that is forecast to influence Tropical Storm Bret seems to be flattening out while the SE US ridge seems to be nosing out over the Carolinas and directly north of the storm.



indeed it does, this may bode well for florida
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907. VAbeachhurricanes 06:47 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
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908. SouthDadeFish 06:47 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting TomTaylor:
I believe what the BAM suite was trying to show was that the more the system intensifies, the more it will be pulled to the NE (as Dr. Masters had mentioned). However, should Bret intensify enough to be steered by the deep layer (cat 2/3 hurricane) it would be steered more by the ridge allowing it to head west.

That may no longer be the case as these are fairly old model runs (8pm EDT), but at the time when the models were run, this is what the BAM suite was indicating...intensification would allow it to move more the NE, but if it intensified even more, then it would actually go to the west.
I think we're all saying the same thing just in a different way. I'm assuming there is no way in heck this thing makes it to cat 3. But I guess there is a small chance for everything.
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909. MiamiHurricanes09 06:48 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting TomTaylor:
I believe what the BAM suite was trying to show was that the more the system intensifies, the more it will be pulled to the NE (as Dr. Masters had mentioned). However, should Bret intensify enough to be steered by the deep layer (cat 2/3 hurricane) it would be steered more by the ridge allowing it to head west.

That may no longer be the case as these are fairly old model runs (8pm EDT), but at the time when the models were run, this is what the BAM suite was indicating...intensification would allow it to move more the NE, but if it intensified even more, then it would actually go to the west.
I completely agree. Do I think it's likely that it will reach category 2 status? No. Is it possible? Certainly.
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910. cchsweatherman 06:48 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Looks like Melbourne will be getting a pretty nice band from Tropical Storm Bret through the early morning hours.
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911. wxhatt 06:49 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting cchsweatherman:


Yes I do see the break between the ridges, but with a flat, very low amplitude trough well to the north and not digging into the break at all, its not gonna have much, if any influence in the short term on Tropical Storm Bret.


your right, not short term anyway.
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912. SouthDadeFish 06:49 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
I might as well wait up for the VDM. I would like to see what the dynamical models now think with a much lower pressure initialized.
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913. JRRP 06:50 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting JLPR2:


That must be the same vort max that the GFS showed entering the Caribbean at exactly that time frame but more to the south.

yes

CMC muestra algo pasando bien la norte de las antillas....

and UKM
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914. SouthDadeFish 06:51 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Center has moved east from last fix...
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915. cchsweatherman 06:52 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting wxhatt:


your right, not short term anyway.


In order for the forecast to be correct, we will need to see northward motion within the next 24 hours with Tropical Storm Bret, which is showing no signs of doing so yet. If not, then this could become a different ball game as ridging will build in and the trough will be exiting.
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917. shadoclown45 06:52 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
I refresh the page and im listening to youtube, so i hear a sound i x'ed out youtube and on this page a commercial for shaving gel for women, IM A MAN thanks wunderblog for the mixed emotions - Love Shadoclown45
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918. errantlythought 06:54 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting MiamiHurricanes09:
I completely agree. Do I think it's likely that it will reach category 2 status? No. Is it possible? Certainly.


I'll say I give it a shot to bomb. Not much of one, but I'd say at least a 1 in 4. It's sitting over a decent pool of water, the sheer isnt going to stop it. The real limit seems like it'd be the dry air to its NW, but it looks like it has enough of a buffer to not worry too much.

I think it's a waiting game til morning, see how he reacts to that big new CDO. False color shows what looks to be two hot towers in the e and s with the S being the more impressive. Keep an eye on those and we'll see how he likes the new steering layers.
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919. MiamiHurricanes09 06:56 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Latest dropsonde into circulation has pressure down another millibar to 1001mb.

000
UZNT13 KNHC 180653
XXAA 68078 99271 70778 08077 99001 27415 23009 00010 27415 23009
92698 22601 19007 85439 21657 35503 88999 77999
31313 09608 80637
61616 AF308 0202A BRET OB 09
62626 EYE SPL 2713N07781W 0639 MBL WND 22509 AEV 20802 DLM WND 22
507 000849 WL150 23009 083 REL 2713N07781W 063743 =
XXBB 68078 99271 70778 08077 00001 27415 11934 22801 22888 24057
33850 21657 44849 21457
21212 00001 23009 11927 18507 22919 20010 33864 29504 44849 36003
31313 09608 80637
61616 AF308 0202A BRET OB 09
62626 EYE SPL 2713N07781W 0639 MBL WND 22509 AEV 20802 DLM WND 22
507 000849 WL150 23009 083 REL 2713N07781W 063743 =
;
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920. JLPR2 06:56 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting JRRP:

yes

CMC muestra algo pasando bien la norte de las antillas....


El CMC muestra un pedazo de energía desprendiendose de la parte superior del disturbio y no el disturbio como tal, por eso lo pasa tan al norte.

Seems that I'll have a disturbance in my area just in time to ruin a long weekend. -.-
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921. wxhatt 06:56 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting cchsweatherman:


In order for the forecast to be correct, we will need to see northward motion within the next 24 hours with Tropical Storm Bret, which is showing no signs of doing so yet. If not, then this could become a different ball game as ridging will build in and the trough will be exiting.


time will only tell...
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922. Matt74 06:56 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Post 882 jrrp
I am on my blackberry and can't really make that out on my screen. What does it show? Thanks
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923. SouthDadeFish 06:57 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
1001mb... Goodnight everyone.
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924. MiamiHurricanes09 06:58 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting SouthDadeFish:
1001mb... Goodnight everyone.
Good night. I'll probably be up until the 5a.m update, lol.
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925. wxhatt 06:59 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting SouthDadeFish:
1001mb... Goodnight everyone.


my eyes are crossing too, goodnite
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927. TomTaylor 06:59 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting SouthDadeFish:
I think we're all saying the same thing just in a different way. I'm assuming there is no way in heck this thing makes it to cat 3. But I guess there is a small chance for everything.
Quoting MiamiHurricanes09:
I completely agree. Do I think it's likely that it will reach category 2 status? No. Is it possible? Certainly.
oh alright, so we are agreeing then lol

Yea, I don't think it will reach that intensity either. Maybe cat 1, but a major hurricane is extremely unlikely.
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928. VAbeachhurricanes 06:59 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
1001mb, good call
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929. JRRP 06:59 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting JLPR2:


El CMC muestra un pedazo de energía desprendiendose de la parte superior del disturbio y no el disturbio como tal, por eso lo pasa tan al norte.

Seems that I'll have a disturbance in my area just in time to ruin a long weekend. -.-

creo que hay que prestarle bastante atencion a esa onda
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931. cchsweatherman 06:59 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting MiamiHurricanes09:
Good night. I'll probably be up until the 5a.m update, lol.


I remember staying up through the night and into the late morning for Tropical Storm Bonnie when it came through our area last year. Screwed up my sleep cycle for weeks. lol
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932. JRRP 07:02 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting Matt74:
Post 882 jrrp
I am on my blackberry and can't really make that out on my screen. What does it show? Thanks

euro 00z
is showing a strong tropical wave or tropical depression (i do not know) near PR
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933. MiamiHurricanes09 07:03 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting cchsweatherman:


I remember staying up through the night and into the late morning for Tropical Storm Bonnie when it came through our area last year. Screwed up my sleep cycle for weeks. lol
Ahhh, I remember Bonnie. Didn't stay up late for that one, just remember waking up really early lol. I'm sure I'll be doing a bunch of all-nighters this season with the more intense ones. Even though Bert isn't "a strong one" he just interests me lol.
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934. MiamiHurricanes09 07:04 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
000
URNT12 KNHC 180700
VORTEX DATA MESSAGE AL982011
A. 18/06:37:30Z
B. 27 deg 07 min N
077 deg 48 min W
C. 850 mb 1448 m
D. 45 kt
E. 334 deg 7 nm
F. 101 deg 46 kt
G. 003 deg 11 nm
H. 1001 mb
I. 15 C / 1466 m
J. 22 C / 1462 m
K. NA / NA
L. NA
M. NA
N. 12345 / 8
O. 0.02 / 5 nm
P. AF308 0202A BRET OB 08
MAX FL WIND 52 KT SE QUAD 05:16:00Z
Curvature North and East. Heavy rain inbound from NE.
;
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935. cchsweatherman 07:05 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting MiamiHurricanes09:
Ahhh, I remember Bonnie. Didn't stay up late for that one, just remember waking up really early lol. I'm sure I'll be doing a bunch of all-nighters this season with the more intense ones. Even though Bert isn't "a strong one" he just interests me lol.


Of course, especially with it being so close to home. I still think that Florida needs to keep a good eye on this storm since I'm not so sure about the weakness really coming in.
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936. VAbeachhurricanes 07:06 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
I. Maximum Flight Level Temp & Pressure Altitude Outside Eye: 15°C (59°F) at a pressure alt. of 1,466m (4,810ft)
J. Maximum Flight Level Temp & Pressure Altitude Inside Eye: 22°C (72°F) at a pressure alt. of 1,462m (4,797ft)

Very strange for a weak TS...
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937. Skyepony (Mod) 07:07 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Yay~anger & persistence pays off..you don't have to pay for this stuff even though the universities have given it to companies to sell back to us.. Ha ha despite it all my model races are back:)


Scaled this back to the last 12hr model error since Bret is so young. So who's in the lead?

GFDN out front with a ~8nm error, slight lead over AEMN & AP01 (~10). AVNO, HWRF & NGP2 chasing with ~14/15. Unfortunately I got nothing on how the BAM models are doing.. NAM is doing better than usual with ~21, rest of the majors are trailing GFDL 33, CMC & NGPS 45.
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938. cchsweatherman 07:07 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting MiamiHurricanes09:
000
URNT12 KNHC 180700
VORTEX DATA MESSAGE AL982011
A. 18/06:37:30Z
B. 27 deg 07 min N
077 deg 48 min W
C. 850 mb 1448 m
D. 45 kt
E. 334 deg 7 nm
F. 101 deg 46 kt
G. 003 deg 11 nm
H. 1001 mb
I. 15 C / 1466 m
J. 22 C / 1462 m
K. NA / NA
L. NA
M. NA
N. 12345 / 8
O. 0.02 / 5 nm
P. AF308 0202A BRET OB 08
MAX FL WIND 52 KT SE QUAD 05:16:00Z
Curvature North and East. Heavy rain inbound from NE.
;


In comparison to the 2AM advisory data, the storm seems to have moved to the east some.
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940. VAbeachhurricanes 07:09 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting cchsweatherman:


In comparison to the 2AM advisory data, the storm seems to have moved to the west some.


east?
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941. cchsweatherman 07:11 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting VAbeachhurricanes:


east?


Corrected. Thanks. lol
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942. VAbeachhurricanes 07:11 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting cchsweatherman:


Corrected. Thanks. lol


No problem haha
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943. MiamiHurricanes09 07:12 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
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944. cchsweatherman 07:12 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting MiamiHurricanes09:
The NHC must of had the position incorrectly. Based on vortex messages, it's been moving just slightly south of due east.


My mistake. lol
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945. cchsweatherman 07:13 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Well its time for me to get some sleep. Past 3 AM here. lol
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946. robert88 07:18 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Bret was a cool surprise. I have a feeling this August and September are going to be real busy. The pot seems to be just coming to a boil.
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947. mrsalagranny 07:22 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Good early morning everyone.I see we have t\TS Bret now.Boy that ne caught us all off guard.Where is Bret expected to go? TIA
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949. Skyepony (Mod) 07:22 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting cchsweatherman:
Well its time for me to get some sleep. Past 3 AM here. lol


Me too.

I'm about to get a bit of rain from Bret. Low clouds, lit somewhat red from Melbourne's lights, flying in with the occasional cloud to ground lightning strike.
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950. HurrMichaelOrl 07:26 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Was curious whether any tropical storm force winds are occurring in the Bahamas. According to Wunderground, the Elbow Cay Abaco station reported a wind speed of 48.3 mph at 12:23 am and winds have been mostly between 25-40 mph for the last several hours.
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951. mrsalagranny 07:27 GMT le 18 juillet 2011    
Quoting jasonweatherman2011:
watch the end here u see a new storm by the end of next week!!
jason may I have the link please?
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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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