Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Tropical Depression Two forms from Invest 98L
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 21:33 GMT le 17 juillet 2011 +0
Tropical Depression Two (TD2) formed from Invest 98L this afternoon. Hurricane Hunters flew into the suspect area and found a surface circulation north of the Bahamas, with maximum sustained winds of 35 mph. They also determined the system had become warm core—a characteristic that must be present in order to declare a tropical cyclone. Satellite imagery continues to show the system is becoming more organized with a stronger circulation. Wind shear is forecast to remain favorable for the system until Tuesday or Wednesday when higher shear will slide in from the north. Sea surface temperatures are warm enough to sustain a tropical storm.


Figure 1. Satellite imagery of Tropical Depression Two in the Atlantic, east of Florida. This graphic will update to the current satellite imagery.


Figure 2. Official 5-day forecast for Tropical Depression Two. This graphic will remain current.

Forecast for TD2

The models are coming into better agreement as TD2 has become more organized. In terms of dynamical forecast models, the HWRF and GFS both forecast TD2 to max out just above tropical storm strenth. HWRF intensifies TD2 to around 47 mph in the next 24 hours, whereas GFS is a bit slower to bring the system up to tropical storm status. Two statistical models, the DSHP (SHIPS model that includes land interaction) and the LGEM (Logistical Growth Equation Model) both intensify TD2 to a moderate tropical storm over the next 2-3 days.

There tends to be a lot of uncertainty involved with tropical cyclones that form under these circumstances, but our forecast remains in line with the National Hurricane Center and the reliable forecast models. TD2 will move slowly to the northeast in weak steering currents over the next few days before eventually becoming an extratropical storm. There is minimal chance that this system will cross over Florida into the Gulf of Mexico. Timing and path depend heavily on how intense the cyclone gets, as Jeff mentioned in his blog earlier today. A weaker storm will tend to stay south, whereas a stronger storm will grow taller in the atmosphere and winds at higher levels will influence it and steer it northeast.

None of the reliable models predict tropical cyclone development over the remainder of the Atlantic through July 23.

Angela
Categories: Hurricane
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51. GeoffreyWPB 21:48 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Member Since: 10 septembre 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 9118
52. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod) 21:48 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
T.C.F.W.
02L/TD/B/CX
MARK
28.13N/78.11W
Member Since: 15 juillet 2006 Posts: 143 Comments: 40476
53. RitaEvac 21:48 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Got ridges from sea to shining sea this year, an no lil short wave is gonna yank this sucker out to sea, everything going westbound this year. Hell it might even go NE temporarily then go back west when new ridge comes back in.
Member Since: 14 juillet 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 8894
54. scCane 21:49 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting Tazmanian:



nop no going out too sea i get my crows ready
It better, I'm going to Myrtle Beach Tuesday.
Member Since: 9 mai 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 152
55. ncstorm 21:49 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
I dont know why people are saying that the models didnt predict development..in fact the ECWMF, CMC, NOGAPS and NAM predicted development..they weren't consistent with their runs but they did see something with the set up..thats why I had a problem with Dr. Masters statement with it "none of the reliable models showing development" early this week..
Member Since: 19 août 2006 Posts: 7 Comments: 8409
56. Levi32 21:49 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Member Since: 24 novembre 2005 Posts: 586 Comments: 25444
57. Tazmanian 21:50 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
with TD 2 no shutted landing this week
Member Since: 21 mai 2006 Posts: 5088 Comments: 111338
58. MrstormX 21:50 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
So why no upgrade yet?
Member Since: 27 mai 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 4228
59. SLU 21:50 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting CybrTeddy:


Given the vortex message had 50 mph sustained.. I don't see why they can't give it 40 mph, I've seen worse looking TS before.
Quoting Stormchaser2007:


If recon is finding consistent 40-50mph winds, it's a TS regardless of what it looks like.


True. But this now reopens the barrel of anacondas concerning strong tropical waves in the deep tropics which don't get the benefit of the recon but have an excellent satellite representation and evidence of tropical storm conditions but because there are no direct observations they don't get named. This creates lots of confusion about the naming of tropical storms.
Member Since: 13 juillet 2006 Posts: 11 Comments: 2846
60. caneswatch 21:50 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
I do know the NHC has their "bad" moments, and I think this track is going to be one of them. There's absolutely no way that Bret is going NE with those very weak steering currents. It's going to continue to head south, and there will be TS Warnings for the Bahamas, and I won't be surprised if there's a TS Warning for some of Florida too.
Member Since: 8 octobre 2008 Posts: 14 Comments: 4473
61. ackee 21:51 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
HOW WOULD U RATE THE NHC HANDLE OF TD#2/Bert SO FAR

A GOOD

B FAIR

C AVERAGE

D POOR
Member Since: 15 juillet 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 1194
62. CanesfanatUT 21:51 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Interesting that the 0Z and 12Z ECWMF runs both have a strong vort heading into the central GOMex from the wave that just left Africa. 12Z looks stronger though with closed isobars.

Have any other models developed this wave?
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63. RitaEvac 21:51 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
And if it keeps going south that short wave is gonna have a less influence on it anyway.
Member Since: 14 juillet 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 8894
64. stormwatcherCI 21:51 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting ncstorm:
I dont know why people are saying that the models didnt predict development..in fact the ECWMF, CMC, NOGAPS and NAM predicted development..they weren't consistent with their runs but they did see something with the set up..thats why I had a problem with Dr. Masters statement with it none of the reliable models showing development early this week..
They were showing development but seems like a little further north. Predictions cannot be an exact science as conditions are constantly changing.
Member Since: 9 octobre 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 8038
65. Tazmanian 21:51 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting MrstormX:
So why no upgrade yet?



upgrades will come out 8pm or 11pm tonight
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66. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod) 21:52 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Member Since: 15 juillet 2006 Posts: 143 Comments: 40476
67. Tazmanian 21:52 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting ackee:
HOW WOULD U RATE THE NHC HANDLE OF TD#2/Bert SO FAR

A GOOD

B FAIR

C AVERAGE

D POOR



E vary poor
Member Since: 21 mai 2006 Posts: 5088 Comments: 111338
68. MrstormX 21:52 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting Tazmanian:



upgrades will come out 8pm or 11pm tonight


*Special Upgrades
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69. RitaEvac 21:53 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
So Wunderground blog gets a D too?!
Member Since: 14 juillet 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 8894
70. SLU 21:53 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting ackee:
HOW WOULD U RATE THE NHC HANDLE OF TD#2/Bert SO FAR

A GOOD

B FAIR

C AVERAGE

D POOR


C

From only 40% at 2pm when the system was looking in great shape to a TD at 5pm and possibly a TS at 8pm
Member Since: 13 juillet 2006 Posts: 11 Comments: 2846
71. Tazmanian 21:53 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting MrstormX:


*Special Upgrades



oh
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72. RitaEvac 21:54 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
TAZ does Masters get a poor rating too for this?
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73. scCane 21:54 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
I'd give them an A. Right now this thing doesn't really look that great on the visible due to shear and D-min, it needs far more deep convection before it can be upgraded to a TS.
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74. CybrTeddy 21:54 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
1008.9 mb
(~ 29.79 inHg)
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75. MrstormX 21:54 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
I'd give them above average marks, I only question the track.
Member Since: 27 mai 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 4228
78. GeoffreyWPB 21:55 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting ackee:
HOW WOULD U RATE THE NHC HANDLE OF TD#2/Bert SO FAR

A GOOD

B FAIR

C AVERAGE

D POOR


A.

But possible TS Bert...not so good. :)
Member Since: 10 septembre 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 9118
79. Tazmanian 21:55 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting RitaEvac:
TAZ does Masters get a poor rating too for this?



nop he gets a C
Member Since: 21 mai 2006 Posts: 5088 Comments: 111338
80. ncstorm 21:56 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting stormwatcherCI:
They were showing development but seems like a little further north. Predictions cannot be an exact science as conditions are constantly changing.


yeah, thats why I'm not bashing the models because I posted those model runs in the blog..the low did set up more south but that was to be expected with the front and the trickery of these types of set ups
Member Since: 19 août 2006 Posts: 7 Comments: 8409
81. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod) 21:56 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting RitaEvac:
So Wunderground blog gets a D too?!
i want a rating as well how did i do forecasting the system
Member Since: 15 juillet 2006 Posts: 143 Comments: 40476
82. TaylorSelseth 21:57 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting Stormchaser2007:


Shortwave will move across the US and drag this to the NE in about 48-72 hours.
How can the shortwave affect the storm with the ridge in the way?
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83. RitaEvac 21:57 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
KOTG, don't remember you saying anything about it
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84. masonsnana 21:58 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting TxHurricanedude11:
Its best to stop asking questions please,it gets annoying sometimes.
A discussion includes questions and answers. Some of us do not have all the answers.
Member Since: 14 février 2004 Posts: 2 Comments: 513
85. RitaEvac 21:59 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Anytime I see storms over water hanging around during hurricane season, I dont give a damn what models or experts say. Especially when they say "nothing expected thru the next 5+days"
Member Since: 14 juillet 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 8894
86. stormwatcherCI 21:59 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting masonsnana:
A discussion includes questions and answers. Some of us do not have all the answers.
+1 LOL.
Member Since: 9 octobre 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 8038
87. GeoffreyWPB 21:59 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
i want a rating as well how did i do forecasting the system


A+
Member Since: 10 septembre 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 9118
89. stormpetrol 21:59 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Time: 20:46:30Z
Coordinates: 27.7833N 77.85W
Acft. Static Air Press: 991.8 mb (~ 29.29 inHg)
Acft. Geopotential Hgt: 185 meters (~ 607 feet)
Extrap. Sfc. Press: 1013.6 mb (~ 29.93 inHg)
D-value: -
Flt. Lvl. Wind (30s): From 60° at 36 knots (From the ENE at ~ 41.4 mph)
Air Temp: 18.0°C (~ 64.4°F)
Dew Pt: 17.3°C (~ 63.1°F)
Peak (10s) Flt. Lvl. Wind: 41 knots (~ 47.1 mph)
SFMR Peak (10s) Sfc. Wind: 54 knots (~ 62.1 mph)
SFMR Rain Rate: 51 mm/hr (~ 2.01 in/hr)
(*) Denotes suspect data

WOW!! no suspect data in this reading
Member Since: 29 avril 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 6396
90. cchsweatherman 22:00 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Some very intense thunderstorms building over the Northern Bahamas. Definitely trying to strengthen further and will help in lowering pressures.
Member Since: 14 avril 2007 Posts: 8 Comments: 4926
91. scooster67 22:00 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting Levi32:
Good afternoon.

Blog update:

Special Tropical Tidbit for Sunday, July 17th, with Video

Excellent explanation, as always.

Thanks Levi
Member Since: 26 septembre 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 637
92. MiamiHurricanes09 22:00 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
02L has moved towards the ENE in between the vortex message released at 21:08 UTC and the latest center fix that took place around 8 minutes ago.
Member Since: 2 septembre 2009 Posts: 129 Comments: 19976
93. GeoffreyWPB 22:01 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Member Since: 10 septembre 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 9118
94. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod) 22:01 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting RitaEvac:
KOTG, don't remember you saying anything about it
thats right cause iam a tracker been tracking it since yesterday first to issue T.C.F.A. this am as well and first to declared td right after and now i will be first to declare TS bret as well

but nope i did not say nothing AT ALL
Member Since: 15 juillet 2006 Posts: 143 Comments: 40476
95. stormpetrol 22:01 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
personally from the data I've seen, I think this a 45-50mph TS, but I'm not an an expert so I don't know, it's just my layman opinion
Member Since: 29 avril 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 6396
96. Levi32 22:01 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting cchsweatherman:
Some very intense thunderstorms building over the Northern Bahamas. Definitely trying to strengthen further and will help in lowering pressures.


Thunderstorm activity remains quite weak for the moment. Intense would be -70C or colder cloud tops (red colors)

Member Since: 24 novembre 2005 Posts: 586 Comments: 25444
97. MiamiHurricanes09 22:01 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting scCane:
I'd give them an A. Right now this thing doesn't really look that great on the visible due to shear and D-min, it needs far more deep convection before it can be upgraded to a TS.
Shear?
Member Since: 2 septembre 2009 Posts: 129 Comments: 19976
99. PcolaDan 22:02 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting masonsnana:
A discussion includes questions and answers. Some of us do not have all the answers.


I have all the answers!


(99% incorrect though when it comes to weather)
Member Since: 22 août 2008 Posts: 12 Comments: 6008
100. Stormchaser2007 22:02 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting stormpetrol:
Time: 20:46:30Z
Coordinates: 27.7833N 77.85W
Acft. Static Air Press: 991.8 mb (~ 29.29 inHg)
Acft. Geopotential Hgt: 185 meters (~ 607 feet)
Extrap. Sfc. Press: 1013.6 mb (~ 29.93 inHg)
D-value: -
Flt. Lvl. Wind (30s): From 60° at 36 knots (From the ENE at ~ 41.4 mph)
Air Temp: 18.0°C (~ 64.4°F)
Dew Pt: 17.3°C (~ 63.1°F)
Peak (10s) Flt. Lvl. Wind: 41 knots (~ 47.1 mph)
SFMR Peak (10s) Sfc. Wind: 54 knots (~ 62.1 mph)
SFMR Rain Rate: 51 mm/hr (~ 2.01 in/hr)
(*) Denotes suspect data

WOW!! no suspect data in this reading



Except for the RR's of 2"/hr
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101. caneswatch 22:03 GMT le 17 juillet 2011    
Quoting GeoffreyWPB:


What's your opinion on Bret, Geoff?
Member Since: 8 octobre 2008 Posts: 14 Comments: 4473

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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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