Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Tropical Depression Seven forms
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 21:59 GMT le 09 août 2012 +41
Tropical Depression Seven is here. Looking remarkably like the tropical depression that became Tropical Storm Ernesto on August 1, TD 7 has a limited region of heavy thunderstorms, as seen on satellite loops. A large amount of dry air to the west and north is visible on water vapor satellite loops, and this dry air is interfering with TD 7's heavy thunderstorms. Wind shear is a light 5 - 10 knots, which is quite favorable for intensification. Ocean temperatures are 26°C, which is a bit on the cool side, though. Winds at the Middle Atlantic buoy 41041 were 20 mph at 5 pm EDT, and should rise this evening, as the center of TD 7 passes about 50 miles to the south near midnight. The first hurricane hunter mission into TD 7 is scheduled for Saturday morning.


Figure 1. Satellite image of TD 7 as it was forming at 3:17 pm EDT August 9, 2012.

Forecast for TD 7
TD 7 formed about 400 miles east-northeast of where Ernesto became a tropical depression, as seen on our wundermap. Atmospheric and oceanic conditions are currently quite similar to what Ernesto experienced, and I expect TD 7 will struggle with dry air like Ernesto did. The SHIPS model predicts that shear will remain light through Friday then rise to the moderate range on Saturday, when the storm will encounter moderate shear from upper-level westerly winds associated with a trough of low pressure. Since conditions are so similar to what Ernesto experienced, the official NHC forecast of a 45 - 50 mph tropical storm moving through the Lesser Antilles Islands Saturday and Sunday is a reasonable one.

Jeff Masters

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1151. Grothar 11:44 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Quoting allancalderini:
think 07 will be Gordon?


Probably, but it is going to be struggle for awhile.
Dry air and shear will be a problem for a few days.

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1152. catman306 11:45 GMT le 10 août 2012    
A tremendous lightning storm rolled through my area yesterday afternoon (NE Georgia). The lightning bolts were unbelievably powerful, with crackling thunder and ground shaking. Megabolts, I think they’re called. At least 50 of the super bolts and many more of the more usual type. That got me thinking:

I’ve read that 10,000 lightning bolts per second flash worldwide and can be perceived by some weather satellites.

Does anyone keep track of Coulombs per second that are released with those bolts? That would or could be another measure of how the atmosphere is getting more energy with the increased water vapor (four percent.)

Expert opinion would be appreciated.
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1153. LargoFl 11:45 GMT le 10 août 2012    
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1154. LargoFl 11:46 GMT le 10 août 2012    
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1155. Patrap 11:47 GMT le 10 août 2012    
06z Early Cycle NHC model tracks
TD #7

Statistical/Simple Models (CLIPER,BAMs,LBAR,other Statistical Models)




Dynamic Models (More sophisticated models)




Early Model Wind Forecasts

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1156. Grothar 11:47 GMT le 10 août 2012    
I noticed that the evening shift was making a list of the Hurricanes they were in. Maybe I'll start one. I should be done in about a month.
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1157. TropicalAnalystwx13 11:48 GMT le 10 août 2012    
TROPICAL WEATHER OUTLOOK
NWS NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
500 AM PDT FRI AUG 10 2012

FOR THE EASTERN NORTH PACIFIC...EAST OF 140 DEGREES WEST LONGITUDE..

THE NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER IS ISSUING ADVISORIES ON TROPICAL
STORM GILMA...LOCATED ABOUT 665 MILES WEST-SOUTHWEST OF THE
SOUTHERN TIP OF BAJA CALIFORNIA.

A LARGE AREA OF DISTURBED WEATHER ALONG THE SOUTHERN COAST OF MEXICO
IS ASSOCIATED WITH THE BROAD CIRCULATION OF WEAKENING TROPICAL
DEPRESSION ERNESTO. ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONS ARE FAVORABLE FOR THIS
DISTURBANCE TO DEVELOP AS IT MOVES WESTWARD AWAY FROM THE COAST OF
MEXICO. THERE IS A HIGH CHANCE...60 PERCENT...OF TROPICAL CYCLONE
FORMATION DURING THE NEXT 48 HOURS.

ELSEWHERE...TROPICAL CYCLONE FORMATION IS NOT EXPECTED DURING THE
NEXT 48 HOURS.

$$
FORECASTER AVILA
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1158. LargoFl 11:48 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Quoting Grothar:
I noticed that the evening shift was making a list of the Hurricanes they were in. Maybe I'll start one. I should be done in about a month.
...LOL
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1159. LargoFl 11:50 GMT le 10 août 2012    
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1160. allancalderini 11:51 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Quoting Grothar:


Probably, but it is going to be struggle for awhile.
Dry air and shear will be a problem for a few days.

Maybe they would upgrade it at 5pm.
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1161. CaneHunter031472 11:51 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Quoting Grothar:
I noticed that the evening shift was making a list of the Hurricanes they were in. Maybe I'll start one. I should be done in about a month.


Lol, well since I was born and raised right in the middle of Hurricane alley (Puerto Rico) and then moved to Mississippi (Katrina) I have quite a few systems to talk about form David to Hug to George which hit both my houses the one in Puerto Rico and then the one in Mississippi. Oh and Katrina which finished the job.
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1162. allancalderini 11:52 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:
TROPICAL WEATHER OUTLOOK
NWS NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
500 AM PDT FRI AUG 10 2012

FOR THE EASTERN NORTH PACIFIC...EAST OF 140 DEGREES WEST LONGITUDE..

THE NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER IS ISSUING ADVISORIES ON TROPICAL
STORM GILMA...LOCATED ABOUT 665 MILES WEST-SOUTHWEST OF THE
SOUTHERN TIP OF BAJA CALIFORNIA.

A LARGE AREA OF DISTURBED WEATHER ALONG THE SOUTHERN COAST OF MEXICO
IS ASSOCIATED WITH THE BROAD CIRCULATION OF WEAKENING TROPICAL
DEPRESSION ERNESTO. ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONS ARE FAVORABLE FOR THIS
DISTURBANCE TO DEVELOP AS IT MOVES WESTWARD AWAY FROM THE COAST OF
MEXICO. THERE IS A HIGH CHANCE...60 PERCENT...OF TROPICAL CYCLONE
FORMATION DURING THE NEXT 48 HOURS.

ELSEWHERE...TROPICAL CYCLONE FORMATION IS NOT EXPECTED DURING THE
NEXT 48 HOURS.

$$
FORECASTER AVILA
sadly it won`t retain the name Ernesto it would probably be Hector.
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1163. LargoFl 11:52 GMT le 10 août 2012    
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1164. luigi18 11:53 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Quoting CaneHunter031472:


Lol, well since I was born and raised right in the middle of Hurricane alley (Puerto Rico) and then moved to Mississippi (Katrina) I have quite a few systems to talk about form David to Hug to George which hit both my houses the one in Puerto Rico and then the one in Mississippi.


i hope no cane hit us then here PR , please!
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1165. SFLWeatherman 11:53 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Rain coming
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1166. Grothar 11:53 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Quoting Patrap:
06z Early Cycle NHC model tracks
TD #7

Statistical/Simple Models (CLIPER,BAMs,LBAR,other Statistical Models)




Dynamic Models (More sophisticated models)




Early Model Wind Forecasts



I can match you model for model, Pat! :) How you doing, Pat?



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1167. LargoFl 11:54 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Quoting SFLWeatherman:
Rain coming
..yep looks like you guys down there get all the action today,nws says heavy rains..hope it gets around the sarasota-ft meyers area..they still need the rains i heard
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1168. Grothar 11:55 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Quoting CaneHunter031472:


Lol, well since I was born and raised right in the middle of Hurricane alley (Puerto Rico) and then moved to Mississippi (Katrina) I have quite a few systems to talk about form David to Hug to George which hit both my houses the one in Puerto Rico and then the one in Mississippi. Oh and Katrina which finished the job.



The first one I actually remember was in 1948 in Fort Lauderdale. Do you really want to match me? LOL

And that is 1948 not 1848.
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1169. LargoFl 11:55 GMT le 10 août 2012    
.........................................looks like Patrap gets alot of action today as well around his area
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1170. Grothar 11:56 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Quoting LargoFl:
..yep looks like you guys down there get all the action today,nws says heavy rains..hope it gets around the sarasota-ft meyers area..they still need the rains i heard


You still dry up there? We really haven't got much of anything. One of the driest summers I can remember.
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1171. SFLWeatherman 11:57 GMT le 10 août 2012    
TD 7 can it go to S FL??
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1172. Grothar 12:01 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Quoting SFLWeatherman:
TD 7 can it go to S FL??


These systems go anywhere they want to. But at this time it is unlikely. It would probably have to be pretty strong to lift that much North. But there is some troughiness about the time it moves into the Antilles so it could move a little more WNW in a few days.
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1173. CaneHunter031472 12:01 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Quoting Grothar:



The first one I actually remember was in 1948 in Fort Lauderdale. Do you really want to match me? LOL

And that is 1948 not 1848.


I doubt I can beat that record lol. I must say. David happened when I was a kid, and it got me hooked on Hurricanes I learned to track them learned what coordinates meant and what make Hurricanes work. Katrina on the other side made me hate them. With Katrina I learned everything about loosing your home and fighting with the insurance people. Oh I also learned how it feels to be dropped by insurers with Katrina, and that MREs can be really tasty but full of calories. lol.
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1174. kshipre1 12:01 GMT le 10 août 2012    
it could, anything can happen but this scenario as of now seems unlikely due to the strong high above TD7 which is forecast to steer it westward across the caribbean.
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1175. weathermanwannabe 12:02 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Good Morning. Looks like we are in the middle of an early August potential CV storm cluster which stated with Ernesto. Pretty incredible when you consider that this type of cluster does not usually start until mid-August to early-September most seasons. However, two of the X factors which have limited major hurricane status so far has been lots of dry air in the Central Atlantic and the relatively hostile conditions in the Eastern Caribbean which is also pretty typical for late-July early August.

The dry air and Sal issues in the Central Atlantic will be critical over the next several weeks as the ITCZ has been very dry lately. If you factor in the next MJO arrival into the Atlantic basin, and the ITCZ moistens up as usual, we could start to see development before nearing the Lesser Antilles but no go so far.

The most recent SAL chart (below) shows that that the AOI at 50% currently leaving Africa will not have as much of a dry air issue but you can see that TD7 is going to have a very tough time with dry air between now and arrival at the Lesser Antilles. This one is going to have a tough time just like Ernesto in the short term.

Link
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1176. SFLWeatherman 12:02 GMT le 10 août 2012    
THX!:)
Quoting Grothar:


These systems go anywhere they want to. But at this time it is unlikely. It would probably have to be pretty strong to lift that much North. But there is some troughiness about the time it moves into the Antilles so it could move a little more WNW in a few days.
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1177. Grothar 12:02 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Quoting CaneHunter031472:


Lol, well since I was born and raised right in the middle of Hurricane alley (Puerto Rico) and then moved to Mississippi (Katrina) I have quite a few systems to talk about form David to Hug to George which hit both my houses the one in Puerto Rico and then the one in Mississippi. Oh and Katrina which finished the job.


Ever think of moving? Looks like you pick really bad places to live. :)
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1178. SFLWeatherman 12:05 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Tropical Depression ERNESTO


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1179. kshipre1 12:06 GMT le 10 août 2012    
interesting computer model runs but even if it becomes a strong tropical cyclone it's strength could get less due to the strong trade winds and dry air. If that is the cast, probably a w or wsw trend. what would be bad is if it gains enough latitude early from strengthening and then if the High moves westward and stronger, there are higher chances of landfalling impacts unless of course a trough picks it up.
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1180. Grothar 12:06 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Quoting weathermanwannabe:
Good Morning. Looks like we are in the middle of an early August potential CV storm cluster which stated with Ernesto. Pretty incredible when you consider that this type of cluster does not usually start until mid-August to early-September most seasons. However, two of the X factors which have limited major hurricane status so far has been lots of dry air in the Central Atlantic and the relatively hostile conditions in the Easter Caribbean which is also pretty typical for late-July early August.

The dry air and Sal issues in the Central Atlantic will be critical over the next several weeks as the ITCZ has been very dry lately. If you factor in the next MJO arrival into the Atlantic basin, and the ITCZ moistens up as usual, we could start to see development before nearing the Lesser Antilles but no go so far.

The most recent SAL chart (below) shows that that invest at 50% currently leaving Africa will not have as much of a dry air issue but you can see that TD7 is going to have a very tough time with dry air between now and arrival at the Lesser Antilles. This one is going to have a tough time just like Ernesto in the short term.

Link


You covered pretty much what is happening in the entire basin.
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1181. unknowncomic 12:07 GMT le 10 août 2012    
For the Florida wishcasters-06 NOGAPS takes td 7 into Florida Aug.17th as a TS.
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1182. SFLWeatherman 12:08 GMT le 10 août 2012    
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1183. SFLWeatherman 12:09 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Can i see that??
Quoting unknowncomic:
For the Florida wishcasters-06 NOGAPS takes td 7 into Florida Aug.17th as a TS.
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1184. kshipre1 12:09 GMT le 10 août 2012    
i wonder if invest 93 would recurve as quick and as much as these models show.
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1185. gordydunnot 12:10 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Is there a story why is wasn't named Ft. Grothar?
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1186. SFLWeatherman 12:10 GMT le 10 août 2012    
On the CMC go W
Quoting kshipre1:
i wonder if invest 93 would recurve as quick and as much as these models show.
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1187. kshipre1 12:10 GMT le 10 août 2012    
lol - must be a pretty strong trough for that to happen.
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1188. bappit 12:11 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Quoting dfwstormwatch:

Link

heres more proof

Interesting link inside the article you linked. First newspaper weather map:

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1189. Grothar 12:11 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Quoting CaneHunter031472:


I doubt I can beat that record lol. I must say. David happened when I was a kid, and it got me hooked on Hurricanes I learned to track them learned what coordinates meant and what make Hurricanes work. Katrina on the other side made me hate them. With Katrina I learned everything about loosing your home and fighting with the insurance people. Oh I also learned how it feels to be dropped by insurers with Katrina, and that MREs can be really tasty but full of calories. lol.


Most of us in coastal Florida got dropped by all the insurance companies. When I was young, like a lot of kids, I wanted a hurricane to hit. But when you have a family and a home, you have a different perspective.
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1190. weathermanwannabe 12:11 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Quoting Grothar:


You covered pretty much what is happening in the entire basin.


What stands out to me the most from the past several weeks is that dryness in the ITCZ. Each wave recently, including Ernesto, have developed within a very small moisture envelope and they have not left much behind after passing through. It's the biggest issue at the moment in spite of warm SST's and relatively favorable sheer.

The other issue is the speed of the waves; Ernesto never got the chance to align properly until he slowed down in the Western Caribbean and TD7 is presently booking along at 20 mph..........Too fast for any significant development before arrival in the Lesser Antilles IMHO.
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1191. kshipre1 12:12 GMT le 10 août 2012    
could make sense that 93L recurves quick due to rapid strengthening but who knows, models this early sometimes do not have a good grasp on these things.
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1192. bappit 12:13 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Must have been a WUBA. Important to note where the weather was dull.
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1193. SFLWeatherman 12:13 GMT le 10 août 2012    
180HR
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1194. kshipre1 12:14 GMT le 10 août 2012    
you said it perfectly. I was watching the hurricane expert on the weather channel yesterday and he was saying that two possible deterrents to tropical formation in the atlantic this season could be very fast trade winds and dry air. On the other hand, closer to home (gulf and caribbean), chances are slightly higher due to near normal trade wind speeds, very warm water.
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1195. kshipre1 12:15 GMT le 10 août 2012    
looks like shear is less.
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1196. LargoFl 12:15 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Quoting Grothar:


You still dry up there? We really haven't got much of anything. One of the driest summers I can remember.
..well this morning the clouds here on the gulf are building and getting higher,looks like the storms will start early, we here just might get some rain this morning regardless of the forecast
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1197. icmoore 12:15 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Good morning, this FL wishcaster only wishes them away from Florida, now is it working? :)

Madeira Beach, FL
Mostly Cloudy
82 °F
(28 °C) Humidity: 88 %
Wind Speed: SE 6 MPH
Barometer: 29.97" (1014.9 mb)
Dewpoint: 78 °F (26 °C)
Heat Index: 91 °F (33 °
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1198. LargoFl 12:16 GMT le 10 août 2012    
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1199. islander101010 12:16 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Quoting weathermanwannabe:


What stands out to me the most from the past several weeks is that dryness in the ITCZ. Each wave recently, including Ernesto, have developed within a very small moisture envelope and they have not left much behind after passing through. It's the biggest issue at the moment in spite of warm SST's and relatively favorable sheer.

The other issue is the speed of the waves; Ernesto never got the chance to align properly until he slowed down in the Western Caribbean and TD7 is presently booking along at 20 mph..........Too fast for any significant development before arrival in the Lesser Antilles IMHO.
storms.like.ike.are.rare...dangerous.yr.ahead
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1200. Grothar 12:17 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Quoting gordydunnot:
Is there a story why is wasn't named Ft. Grothar?


It actually was a fort originally.
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1201. Thing342 12:18 GMT le 10 août 2012    
Goodbye, Ernesto. Happy trails!

AL, 05, 2012081012, , BEST, 0, 180N, 985W, 20, 1005, PT, 34, NEQ, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1007, 150, 35, 0, 0, L, 0, , 0, 0, ERNESTO, D,
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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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