Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Interesting that posts 798 & 799 both cited economic gain as the motivation behind the raging debate, but from opposite sides.

Quoting bappit:

My impression is: If people are still able to evacuate, it is not big enough, at least not yet. If it were big enough, a lot of those people would already be dead.

A good way to estimate the impact on the worlds temperature would be to compare it with the eruption of mount Pinatubo in the phillipines. For reflective cooling to have a significant impact, the ejecta must contain large amount of SO2 and the eruption column must be high enough to penetrate the stratosphere. From what I read about the eruption yesterday, impact on the temperature should be neglegible as of now.

Quoting atl134:


I have a plan. We just rename carbon dioxide puppy breath. Then we'll no longer have a CO2 problem. We would have a puppy breath problem but that is a much more adorable problem to have.

Don't tell that to one of my neighbors.
I just saw his little dog with its tongue hanging out the side of its mouth and he said he had all its teeth pulled because of "dog breath." Then the idiot complained because he had to pay $750 to get something out of its intestines. I don't want to walk past his house anymore because he makes me so sick. I would like his teeth all pulled out for bad breath!

Quoting aspectre:
Oh good grief, your SUV is a gas-hog cuz it ain't designed for transportation. It's designed so that wimps can pretend to be MadMax RoadWarriors.
'bout like owning a Veyron. The world highest speed limit is 140km/h (87mph). Buying a 400km/h vehicle merely proves that one can afford to be a complete&utter IDIOT.

I could never understand why people would buy/waste their money on cars like that that go up to 200mph?.It's stupidity really.I have a truck only because I have a large family and I don't see us all fitting in a hybrid.I don't drive it on week days unless necessary.I mostly drive it around on weekends when I have errands to do.

Quoting washingtonian115:
I could never understand why people would buy/waste their money on cars like that that go up to 200mph?.It's stupidity really.I have a truck only because I have a large family and I don't see us all fitting in a hybrid.I don't drive it on week days unless necessary.I mostly drive it around on weekends when I have errands to do.

I went from a V8 to a V4.
While I miss the quick acceleration am very happy with the cost of the car and mileage it gets an average 36-38 mph (and it is not a hybrid).

Quoting MNhockeymama:


:) Don't we need puppy breath in order to grow the food we eat? Don't we all breathe out Co2? Maybe AGW is just another form of natural selection?

Hmmmm, I didn't take you for a social darwinist. OMG. jk

The amount of CO2 put in the air is staggering. Respiration contributes a tiny fraction. Burning one gallon of gasoline creates almost twenty pounds of CO2. Making concrete creates a lot of CO2, also, which surprised me.

Quoting katadman:
Interesting that posts 798 & 799 both cited economic gain as the motivation behind the raging debate, but from opposite sides.

Yes, it is interesting. But only one side has empirical evidence...

Quoting aspectre:
Oh good grief, an SUV is a gas-hog cuz it ain't designed for transportation. It's designed so that wimps can pretend to be MadMax RoadWarriors.
'bout like owning a Veyron. The world highest speed limit is 140km/h (87mph). Buying a 400km/h vehicle merely proves that one is a complete&utter IDIOT and can afford the consequences.

Bold=name calling. Nice. Thanks for demonstrating exactly what I was talking about in one of my earlier posts.

(Btw, have you tried to put 4 kids in a small car? ever? and do you generally get 60" of snow during an average winter? 4 wheel drive comes in handy. & Do you think I like paying tons of money for gas? Very few cars/minivans that can seat 6-7 passengers get decent fuel economy and the ones that do, I can't afford.)

Quoting bappit:

But you survived. :)

Personally I don't see that the world's record high temperature is all that important despite what the Doc says. The day in and day out temps are what matter. Yep, people will talk about global warming. You know why? Because it affects everyone, everywhere.

Will we do anything about it? I'm afraid not. We have to keep the economy growing. Then again, the world economy can't grow forever. Just a matter of time.

its stramge, but if you look back at civilizations down thru the ages, most empires last what 3-4-500 years then collapse..why is that?...is it because the average working person, in those empires have said..enough is enough, we cant live on what we make and proceed to overthrow those in power?..all empires that werent invaded by outsiders..seem to collapse upon themselves..in school some guys were into sports..some into math etc..I..loved human history, where we came from, where we might be headed..and I am wondering...our american society..our empire...is what..400 years old...heading towards 500....will we..collapse upon ourselves..this time from prices and wages and the working class person who cannot make ends meet?......the young ones here today..might see the answer in the future....interesting thought when you study civilization and history..in which we..are a part of...im done with this now..thanks for partaking in the discussion and we got over 800 posts..thats cool...back to weather ok..again..TY

Quoting Chicklit:

I went from a V8 to a V4.
While I miss the ability to speed up I am very happy with the cost of the are and mileage it gets at average 36-38 mph (and it is not a hybrid).

It's a good thing to I live in the city as transportation is easy to come by.Most of the buses advertise that they're running on clean fuel.

We have been looking at the Blobs around Florida and the wave (moving way too fast) in the Central Atlantic with no model support.

Meanwhile, the Blob down in the SW Caribbean about to come ashore in Costa Rica-Nicaragua around 12N-83W has been trying to get a nice groove on this morning. Don't know that it will have time to spin up because of the land interaction (Not worth noting for Atlantic development) but it could become a seed for E-Pac later on down the road......Again, no previous model support on this one.

Link

Im trying to pick a new avatar guys, can you tell me which one you like the best?

1. Eye of Typhoon Sanba vis:


2. Typhoon Sanba IR loop 1


3. Typhoon Sanba IR loop 2


4. The Bomb


5. Atlanta Falcons Backflip


6. Olympic Torch


7. Typhoon Sanba Truecolor Vis


8 .Olympic Stadium Fireworks 1


9. Olympic Stadium Fireworks 2


10. Olympic Stadium Fireworks 3




These are my finalists from about 100 pictures, and im leaning towards nubmers 3-8

Quoting MNhockeymama:


Bold=name calling. Nice. Thanks for demonstrating exactly what I was talking about in one of my earlier posts.

(Btw, have you tried to put 4 kids in a small car? ever? and do you generally get 60" of snow during an average winter? 4 wheel drive comes in handy. & Do you think I like paying tons of money for gas? Very few cars/minivans that can seat 6-7 passengers get decent fuel economy and the ones that do, I can't afford.)

Exactly.Some people get trucks for their height as well.My brother is 6 4" and he can not fit into a tiny car so he has no choice but to get a truck.Not only that trucks are used for people's work..such as farming construction ect...

Quoting GeorgiaStormz:
Im trying to pick a new avatar guys, can you tell me which one you like the best?

1. Eye of Typhoon Sanba vis:


2. Typhoon Sanba IR loop 1


3. Typhoon Sanba IR loop 2


4. The Bomb


5. Atlanta Falcons Backflip


6. Olympic Torch


7. Typhoon Sanba Truecolor Vis


8 .Olympic Stadium Fireworks 1


9. Olympic Stadium Fireworks 2


10. Olympic Stadium Fireworks 3




These are my finalists from about 100 pictures, and im leaning towards nubmers 3-8

..5 would be good for you

Quoting GeorgiaStormz:
Im trying to pick a new avatar guys, can you tell me which one you like the best?6-thumb.jpg" style="max-width: 501px; ">

">



These are my finalists from about 100 pictures, and im leaning towards nubmers 3-8

I vote for #6

This is where I got my numbers.
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
Addmittedly, volume is a more accurate indicator of loss than area, but in terms of albido and reflecting solar energy that is now absorbed by the exposed arctic ocean, area works just fine.
(Arctic sea ice usually reaches its minimum area on the 2nd week of September)

This change isn't waiting for your grandchildren or the united nations.

Switching to methane that is 4 time more harmful than CO2 or puppy breath (would that make methane dinosaur farts?) is not a move in the improving things catagory.

...........orlando is getting the rains today...anyone hear from stormtracker2k?..must be busy with the new baby huh

Quoting TomballTXPride:
You are just going around and around in circles with this topic. Everyone has their view on AGW, and one's view is likely not going to change on the subject. Not in here anyway where all I see is constant blaming on one element (fossil fuel burning) when it's likely a combination of many different reasons and likely somewhere in the middle in regard's to human culpability.

On to Sanba. Eye has disappeared, as likely an EWRC is underway.

You seem to be a frequent poster on the topic. Maybe you should cut back on your posts.

Since you bring it up, we know that the CO2 increase is from fossil fuels since the ratio of C14 is decreasing. C14 is a radioactive isotope of carbon. The carbon from fossil fuels is low in C14.

Quoting AussieStorm:
Foam's up as surfers brave massive murky-brown waves



DIE HARD surfers dodged logs and debris to ride these waves as floodwater deluge hit the coast of New Zealand.

Hardcore surfers are known to travel far and wide in their search for the perfect wave, braving often choppy and dangerous conditions others wouldn't dream of dipping a toe into.

These waves, however, are a different matter altogether.

Three surfers jumped at the chance to ride the torrential swell in Karitane on the south island of New Zealand. Photographer Chris Garden, 30, spotted the unusual sight as he drove along the coastline



The murky-coloured waves were the result of overflowing flood-waters and kicked up a dramatic spray when they broke.

The foam stretched for 100m along the shore and was almost 30m deep in some places.

Garden, who was watching the action from a cliff, told the Daily Mail: "There was a big swell churning up the foam.
We had had a lot of flooding and so flood water had been coming out into the sea. It was all getting mixed up with the sea water and there were also logs floating out through the waves.



"The water is really cold at this time of year too, which doesn't make for very enjoyable surfing conditions. I think the surfers had fun but you wouldn't catch me out in it."

Garden, from nearby Dunedin, added: "In 10 years photographing surfers I have never seen anything like it before. I was driving along looking for some good waves when I came across it."

The surfers rode the waves for about 20 minutes before heading back to shore. He said some were nearly 3m high and the force of the waves washed all the foam onto the shore.

Garden said: “The waves were washing all the foam on to the shore.

"Once there, it all gradually disintegrated. This scene wasn't there very long and I was lucky to catch it."

That is just plain ole' Nasty...

Quoting washingtonian115:
I don't believe GW is purely man made.The earth goes through warm and cool cycles before and those same "scientist" know that.If anyway wants to respond in a aggressive way go ahead as I will ignore you..

I agree that the climate change is not wholely man made but man's contribution is causing an acceleration of the change. In doing this, life on earth does not have the time to evolve to the change. I am one who thinks we should do something about man's contribution but I am doubtful it will help. I think we have already reached the tipping point. But I thought that when as a teenager I watched that river burning and the smog in many large cities. I never thought our efforts to clean up pollution would work. And look, it did. So a concerted effort to convert to truly clean energy and do away with a lot of the fossil fuels would probably help a great deal. It would be even better if we could replant the forests and stop the clearing of land. With the explosion of population in this world, the need for cleared land grows. So will we ever get together as a global community and do the things we need to do to stop our contribution to this climate change. No way. But I am a pessimist. I hope the people of the world surprise me.

Quoting TomballTXPride:

If #5 is Roddy White in the end zone after a TD, then #5 it is. Love it!!

Yeah its Roddy White, my favorite player, he stuck the landing perfectly too. :)

So far its 2 votes for 5 and 1 vote for 6

Quoting MNhockeymama:


Bold=name calling. Nice. Thanks for demonstrating exactly what I was talking about in one of my earlier posts.

(Btw, have you tried to put 4 kids in a small car? ever? and do you generally get 60" of snow during an average winter? 4 wheel drive comes in handy. & Do you think I like paying tons of money for gas? Very few cars/minivans that can seat 6-7 passengers get decent fuel economy and the ones that do, I can't afford.)

you make your choices what you drive. If you have 4 children and need to drive a bigger vehicle then you will pay the price. Pretty simple, you are making a bigger footprint than most. This is the only way eventually we will ween ourselves off of these destructive emissions is by making it too expensive for people to place them into the air.

Quoting MNhockeymama:
First: Thanks for the updates on the "blob" in the GOM - very appreciated!



No one is deriding the "good faith" of anyone - at least, I'm not. However, the "good faith" of which you speak becomes an issue when you have governments that are using the science of AGW to make policies that trample on the freedoms of their citizens. Saving the planet is one thing; insisting that I must live in high-density housing and try to find a way to fit my four kids, two dogs, 1 large hockey bag and three swim bags into a Smart car because my SUV uses fossil fuel and has been deemed as "evil" by those with "good faith" directly infringes upon my "Pursuit of Happiness" which is a basic right through our Constitution. Furthermore, policy-makers who choose to enforce regulations put forth by an international organization (i.e. the UN)filled with people who have not been elected by the people of this country and therefore do not have any right to tell American citizens how to live their lives directly threaten the sovereignty of the USA. These policies include the proposed universal TAX that would take money from American citizens, give it to the World Bank to be distributed to citizens (or more likely, corrupt governments - that money being sent to Egypt is working out real well right now, isn't it?) of other countries - under the guise of "The USA is successful and wealthy and uses fossil fuels, therefore we must punish those American citizens so we will tax them and then send the money to poorer countries because the evil Americans are destroying the environment." Really? What about China, India and other up and coming powers? They do not follow the Kyoto Protocol and yet they're using fossil fuels and do not give a rip about the environment - why are we not doing the same to them? Because it is politically & economically driving at its core and truly more about bringing the USA and our success down to the level of the less affluent, less successful countries and not about saving the environment.

I am not deriding or dismissing he average person who truly believes in AGW and really believes that we need to do everything we can to help the environment and practices what they preach. However, please remember when you allow "good faith" policies and regulations remove the freedoms and rights of others, it won't be long until those freedoms and rights you hold dear will also be gone, taken away by the same people you applauded when they stole from the people you called "skeptics".

BTW: how's that $4+/gal gas workin' for ya? That Smart car is probably working out really well, right? Just wait til the rest of the coal-fired electrical plants are shut down - how will you charge your car during the rolling brown/black outs that will happen when the wind isn't blowing those turbines?

It's unwise to approach science from a primarily political perspective, as that sometimes often usually always leads to inadvertent misunderstandings and misinterpretations of scientific findings. Ideological blinders make for difficult navigation...

There are scientists all around the world of many different political persuasions who have looked at the overwhelming evidence and come to the inescapable conclusions that a) the world is rapidly warming, b) CO2 is the culprit, and c) that CO2 is from us. To claim that all those scientists everywhere are engaged in a worldwide conspiracy merely to deprive Americans of their "freedoms" is absurd beyond almost all reasoning, and, frankly, pretty darned paranoid.

Living where you wish and living as you like is a freedom. Selfishly destroying the environment--and lying about doing so--isn't.

Quoting StormDrain:
Death Valley, by the blog title and photo caption, new official hottest place on the planet.

...Yet how do mets/climatologists determine the hottest place on Earth?

It's the place where the highest ever temperature was recorded on one day, that's it.

Quoting MNhockeymama:


Bold=name calling. Nice. Thanks for demonstrating exactly what I was talking about in one of my earlier posts.

(Btw, have you tried to put 4 kids in a small car? ever? and do you generally get 60" of snow during an average winter? 4 wheel drive comes in handy. & Do you think I like paying tons of money for gas? Very few cars/minivans that can seat 6-7 passengers get decent fuel economy and the ones that do, I can't afford.)

I like this post.

Quoting kwgirl:
I agree that the climate change is not wholely man made but man's contribution is causing an acceleration of the change. In doing this, life on earth does not have the time to evolve to the change. I am one who thinks we should do something about man's contribution but I am doubtful it will help. I think we have already reached the tipping point. But I thought that when as a teenager I watched that river burning and the smog in many large cities. I never thought our efforts to clean up pollution would work. And look, it did. So a concerted effort to convert to truly clean energy and do away with a lot of the fossil fuels would probably help a great deal. It would be even better if we could replant the forests and stop the clearing of land. With the explosion of population in this world, the need for cleared land grows. So will we ever get together as a global community and do the things we need to do to stop our contribution to this climate change. No way. But I am a pessimist. I hope the people of the world surprise me.

About 7 years ago me and the local community got together and protested that they not put another condo in the neighborhood.We also planted some new trees and cleaned up the trash off the streets.There is also a local market up the streets that sell locally grown fruit and vegetables.

Quoting hydrus:
Hello Nea..The pendulum is swinging over in regards to the belief that global warming is real, albeit slowly. The thing that gets me the most is that there are people that still believe that it is some fantasy invented by the left to control governmental issues...What more then what is already happening does it take to convince these idiots that the Earth is not only warming, but doing so at an alarming rate. My conclusion is that they will put there interests first regardless of the scientifically proven facts until they can get everything they want for as long as possible, then say o.k. your right. By then they will have profited as much as they could under the circumstances knowing they lied to satisfy there agenda.

I like this post, too.

@ LargoFL 860:

I occasionally like quite times like this. Times when bloggers start touching the subjects of history, social science and philosophy. And times when bloggers who convey their ideas, fears, and doubts are respectfully replied with posts that will leave you with points to ponder. It feels like we truly communicating with each other.

Quoting bappit:

Personally I don't see that the world's record high temperature is all that important despite what the Doc says.

Perhaps not important to all, but definitely of enough interest to spur decades of investigation, get millions of hits on Google, and garner dozens of worldwide news headlines yesterday and today.

Quoting MNhockeymama:
First: Thanks for the updates on the "blob" in the GOM - very appreciated!



No one is deriding the "good faith" of anyone - at least, I'm not. However, the "good faith" of which you speak becomes an issue when you have governments that are using the science of AGW to make policies that trample on the freedoms of their citizens. Saving the planet is one thing; insisting that I must live in high-density housing and try to find a way to fit my four kids, two dogs, 1 large hockey bag and three swim bags into a Smart car because my SUV uses fossil fuel and has been deemed as "evil" by those with "good faith" directly infringes upon my "Pursuit of Happiness" which is a basic right through our Constitution. Furthermore, policy-makers who choose to enforce regulations put forth by an international organization (i.e. the UN)filled with people who have not been elected by the people of this country and therefore do not have any right to tell American citizens how to live their lives directly threaten the sovereignty of the USA. These policies include the proposed universal TAX that would take money from American citizens, give it to the World Bank to be distributed to citizens (or more likely, corrupt governments - that money being sent to Egypt is working out real well right now, isn't it?) of other countries - under the guise of "The USA is successful and wealthy and uses fossil fuels, therefore we must punish those American citizens so we will tax them and then send the money to poorer countries because the evil Americans are destroying the environment." Really? What about China, India and other up and coming powers? They do not follow the Kyoto Protocol and yet they're using fossil fuels and do not give a rip about the environment - why are we not doing the same to them? Because it is politically & economically driving at its core and truly more about bringing the USA and our success down to the level of the less affluent, less successful countries and not about saving the environment.

I am not deriding or dismissing he average person who truly believes in AGW and really believes that we need to do everything we can to help the environment and practices what they preach. However, please remember when you allow "good faith" policies and regulations remove the freedoms and rights of others, it won't be long until those freedoms and rights you hold dear will also be gone, taken away by the same people you applauded when they stole from the people you called "skeptics".

BTW: how's that $4+/gal gas workin' for ya? That Smart car is probably working out really well, right? Just wait til the rest of the coal-fired electrical plants are shut down - how will you charge your car during the rolling brown/black outs that will happen when the wind isn't blowing those turbines?

That is what is wrong with this world and with mankind. Too many people want the status quo to not change at all. Well change is good. If you read your comment back, you will see how selfish you sound. I agree, people don't like change. They aren't going to take away your SUV overnight. In fact the idea is to get the alternate fuels and transports designed and manufactured so we can get away from fossil fuels. If and when that happens your children will be grown and out of the house and you won't need that SUV. Hopefully there will be a world left so you can see your grandchildren.

Quoting bappit:

Hmmmm, I didn't take you for a social darwinist. OMG. jk

The amount of CO2 put in the air is staggering. Respiration contributes a tiny fraction. Burning one gallon of gasoline creates almost twenty pounds of CO2. Making concrete creates a lot of CO2, also, which surprised me.

Part of the issue regarding fossil fuels is that government is trying to force the issue - like the ethanol requirements: because of the drought, corn production is way down this year, which historically would have caused issues on the world food market as it is, but with the ethanol boom, about 1/2 the corn produced this year will be turned into fuel. (Did you know that it takes, on average, a gallon of gas to produce a gallon of ethanol? That's working well.) What kind of policy requires citizens to burn FOOD for Fuel? It makes little sense. We will be seeing the worldwide reverberations from this policy soon - the riots happening in the MidEast will be joined with the suffering of people starving in countries that rely upon American corn, etc. due to the policies instituted by our government. Makes me wonder if the policies aren't in some way a backhanded way to fight the population boom. There are some in the administration who have been big on population control - John Holdren and Cass Sunstein come to mind - who knows? Although, in the US, we have just crossed the line where our birth rate does not keep up with the "replacement rate" - we are becoming very much like Europe in that way.

Quoting kwgirl:
That is what is wrong with this world and with mankind. Too many people want the status quo to not change at all. Well change is good. If you read your comment back, you will see how selfish you sound. I agree, people don't like change. They aren't going to take away your SUV overnight. In fact the idea is to get the alternate fuels and transports designed and manufactured so we can get away from fossil fuels. If and when that happens your children will be grown and out of the house and you won't need that SUV. Hopefully there will be a world left so you can see your grandchildren.

kw......I see my grandchildren now and I hope for the best for them... "And put up a parking lot"

I don't want the government getting evolved in how I should contribute to reducing GW by taking some of my freedoms away..I read a magazine about a year ago about how some nuts were proposing what the government should do.I'm all about protecting the environment but I don't want some of my freedoms taken away in the process...Such as what car I should be driving...what time lights should be out in my house...and there was much more..Like how much paper and tissue should be used in my house.Also going on a vegetarian diet if possible..

We some sort of birth control so the world doesn't explode. If we don't then eventually something will happen to humanity that will eradicate a large portion of the population. Usually nature takes care of this but this time it very well may be AGW which will take care of it for us. I guess in an indirect way it is nature taking care of this.... human nature that is.

Quoting bappit:

I like this post, too.

Quoting hydrus:
Hello Nea..The pendulum is swinging over in regards to the belief that global warming is real, albeit slowly. The thing that gets me the most is that there are people that still believe that it is some fantasy invented by the left to control governmental issues...What more then what is already happening does it take to convince these idiots that the Earth is not only warming, but doing so at an alarming rate. My conclusion is that they will put there interests first regardless of the scientifically proven facts until they can get everything they want for as long as possible, then say o.k. your right. By then they will have profited as much as they could under the circumstances knowing they lied to satisfy there agenda.

Name calling prevails.... so sad a discussion turns into exactely what it always does...

Quoting 954FtLCane:
We need to make less children so the world doesn't explode. If we don't then eventually something will happen to humanity that will eradicate a large portion of the population. Usually nature takes care of this but this time it very well may be AGW which will take care of it for us. I guess in an indirect way it is nature taking care of this.... human nature that is.

954..I agrre with what you are saying, but i think the wording wasn't spot on......Maybe the words are "birth control" but the illiterate 3rd world countries have a hard time understanding that

Quoting MNhockeymama:


Part of the issue regarding fossil fuels is that government is trying to force the issue - like the ethanol requirements: because of the drought, corn production is way down this year, which historically would have caused issues on the world food market as it is, but with the ethanol boom, about 1/2 the corn produced this year will be turned into fuel. (Did you know that it takes, on average, a gallon of gas to produce a gallon of ethanol? That's working well.) What kind of policy requires citizens to burn FOOD for Fuel? It makes little sense.

Ethanol is not for CO2. I suspect it increases CO2 emissions. Ethanol is for other types of pollution. Wikipedia:

"Oxygenate blending adds oxygen-bearing compounds such as MTBE, ETBE and ethanol. The presence of these oxygenates reduces the amount of carbon monoxide and unburned fuel in the exhaust gas. In many areas throughout the US, oxygenate blending is mandated by EPA regulations to reduce smog and other airborne pollutants. For example, in Southern California, fuel must contain 2% oxygen by weight, resulting in a mixture of 5.6% ethanol in gasoline. The resulting fuel is often known as reformulated gasoline (RFG) or oxygenated gasoline, or in the case of California, California reformulated gasoline. The federal requirement that RFG contain oxygen was dropped on 6 May 2006 because the industry had developed VOC-controlled RFG that did not need additional oxygen.[14]

"MTBE use is being phased out in some states due to issues with contamination of ground water. In some places, such as California, it is already banned. Ethanol and, to a lesser extent, the ethanol-derived ETBE are common replacements."

Quoting PalmBeachWeather:
954..I agrre with what you are saying, but i think the wording wasn't spot on......Maybe the words are "birth control" but the illiterate 3rd world countries have a hard time understanding that

Gotcha, I read it and said..."what?".... thanks. Yes burf control.

Quoting 954FtLCane:
We need to make less children so the world doesn't explode. If we don't then eventually something will happen to humanity that will eradicate a large portion of the population. Usually nature takes care of this but this time it very well may be AGW which will take care of it for us. I guess in an indirect way it is nature taking care of this.... human nature that is.

Often people respond to the threat posed by AGW by claiming that mankind will adapt. What they fail to comprehend is that mass die-offs are themselves just a more extreme form of adaptation. The earth doesn't much care whether we're here or not; if we succeed in doing away with ourselves, we'll be just another in a millions-long list of species that have flared into existence, burnt brightly for awhile, then sputtered out.

When in Rome.....

Did anyone see the picture of starving polar bears in the Arctic (what's left of the ice) in yesterday's CNN?

Quoting TomballTXPride:

I'm sorry. Taking away my right to beef is an OUTRAGE!!!!!

Ok. Rant over.

"Where's the beef"? I'll listen

Well I had 6 kids so I'm illiterate now?.Well I should get off now.Nadine please do something interesting in the next few days please.

Quoting washingtonian115:
About 7 years ago me and the local community got together and protested that they not put another condo in the neighborhood.We also planted some new trees and cleaned up the trash off the streets.There is also a local market up the streets that sell locally grown fruit and vegetables.

I bet there is a lot of trash under those grown trees, if you haven't cleaned up in 7 years.

Quoting 954FtLCane:


you make your choices what you drive. If you have 4 children and need to drive a bigger vehicle then you will pay the price. Pretty simple, you are making a bigger footprint than most. This is the only way eventually we will ween ourselves off of these destructive emissions is by making it too expensive for people to place them into the air.

Quoting kwgirl:
That is what is wrong with this world and with mankind. Too many people want the status quo to not change at all. Well change is good. If you read your comment back, you will see how selfish you sound. I agree, people don't like change. They aren't going to take away your SUV overnight. In fact the idea is to get the alternate fuels and transports designed and manufactured so we can get away from fossil fuels. If and when that happens your children will be grown and out of the house and you won't need that SUV. Hopefully there will be a world left so you can see your grandchildren.

I'm selfish? Seriously? At this point, I'm more concerned that the USA will be around for my kids because it didn't completely fail economically due to inept and destructive policies being either passed by a corrupt Congress or Executive Ordered by a President who chooses to bypass Congress completely. Excuse me for realizing that what is happening to our country financially is going to have more immediate impacts on my kids' futures than my driving an SUV for a few years is going to have.

It is also very hard to listen to those who scream the loudest about AGW and then watch them get into their jets/limos/hummers and take their "passion" seriously (Al Gore, pretty much any celebrity, Nancy Pelosi, et al...) or the science seriously.